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News & Current Events Discuss Report: Gray died of broken neck suffered in van at the General Forum; Originally Posted by foundit66 2.5 weeks. You claim that was rushed? Seriously. The b.s. you guys spew is AMAZING! I ...

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Old 05-01-2015, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: Report: Gray died of broken neck suffered in van

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
2.5 weeks.
You claim that was rushed?

Seriously. The b.s. you guys spew is AMAZING!


I really want your opinion regarding the error in the previous Faux News article.
How is it that Faux News claims that the ME said he did it to himself ...
... and then today we have the ME report labeling it a homicide.

Or you can whine about something even more and still refuse to give any meaningful comment if you want to continue with your status quo.


(Hey! Want my prediction as to what your reply will include? )
Oh, the investigation uncovered the second stop before it concluded. Please explain your expertise in this type of investigation such that you are able to authoritatively state that 2.5 weeks is not rushed for this type of investigation. We know that mobs rioting in the streets and a mayor announcing "our victory" from race baiter Al Sharpton's podium created intense pressure to conclude the investigation along a predetermined timeline, but your "expertise" says otherwise.
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Old 05-01-2015, 01:16 PM
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Default Re: Report: Gray died of broken neck suffered in van

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Fox didn't f**k up...

If you read the actual article instead of seeing "Fox News" and start frothing, you'd see this phrase...

So Fox News is telling us what a LOCAL ABC AFFILIATE is reporting...

When the cause is to slay the messenger, whatever works, eh?...

...and here's that report...

Now THIS is factual...

Here's where the subjective comes in...

This is where the District Attorney is f**king up...

There is NO WAY a medical examiner can know if Gray slammed his head on purpose in order to kill himself...

There is NO WAY a medical examiner can know if Gray slammed his head on purpose in order to make himself appear injured by the cops and accidentally went too far...

There is NO WAY a medical examiner can know if the cop driving simply hit a bump and Gray's head accidentally slammed into the back of the van...

There is NO WAY medical examiner can know if the cop driving was intentionally swerving and driving recklessly in order to injure (or kill) Gray...

All of these scenarios have ZERO to do with the medical examiner...For the medical examiner to rule it a it a homicide is grossly irresponsible...

We very well may find that it WAS a homicide (or at least, manslaughter) and the cop driving DID drive in a manner that killed Gray...but ONCE AGAIN, the medical examiner has NO WAY of determining this...They can ONLY determine the cause of death...Not motive...
You are right on here,,,

Just for the record, and not to sound at all pompous, anytime a human dies because of the action of another, it is ruled a homicide by the Coroner.

Even if it was an accident, or done by the victim's own hand.

Homicide does not always equal Murder.

The question the Medical examiner cannot answer is whether or not this victim was murdered. Half the charges on the list of indictments are not related to the homicide but negligent or intentional failure to provide for safe transport and other improper procedures of arrest, detention and containment.

By all available evidence both Freddie and the other detainee were in the same van & traveled the same streets and yet Freddie has a broken neck. The other guy has no apparent injuries. How could bad driving cause one to die and the other not to suffer a scratch?
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Old 05-01-2015, 03:41 PM
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Default Re: Report: Gray died of broken neck suffered in van

The officers are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I can think of several way this could have happened especially if he had spinal surgery of some sort recently. But waiting for facts would kill internet forums. When an officer takes someone prisoner, that officer places him under arrest and the prisoner health and safety become that officers responsibly. Something went wrong somewhere. Maybe the guy should have had a C collar on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
You are right on here,,,

Just for the record, and not to sound at all pompous, anytime a human dies because of the action of another, it is ruled a homicide by the Coroner.

Even if it was an accident, or done by the victim's own hand.

Homicide does not always equal Murder.

The question the Medical examiner cannot answer is whether or not this victim was murdered. Half the charges on the list of indictments are not related to the homicide but negligent or intentional failure to provide for safe transport and other improper procedures of arrest, detention and containment.

By all available evidence both Freddie and the other detainee were in the same van & traveled the same streets and yet Freddie has a broken neck. The other guy has no apparent injuries. How could bad driving cause one to die and the other not to suffer a scratch?
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Old 05-01-2015, 03:56 PM
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Default Re: Report: Gray died of broken neck suffered in van

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly View Post
The officers are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. I can think of several way this could have happened especially if he had spinal surgery of some sort recently. But waiting for facts would kill internet forums. When an officer takes someone prisoner, that officer places him under arrest and the prisoner health and safety become that officers responsibly. Something went wrong somewhere. Maybe the guy should have had a C collar on?
Thanks again Captain Obvious
Wrong again but thanks.
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Old 05-01-2015, 04:48 PM
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Post Re: Report: Gray died of broken neck suffered in van

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Oh, the investigation uncovered the second stop before it concluded.
The investigation? Yes.
The cops REPORTING the stop occurred because they performed it? That's what should have happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin
Thanks again Captain Obvious
Wrong again but thanks.
Those two statements seem contradictory ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin
Just for the record, and not to sound at all pompous, anytime a human dies because of the action of another, it is ruled a homicide by the Coroner.
Even if it was an accident, or done by the victim's own hand.
How about you just "sounding" wrong?
By your description, there would be no real point in the classification.
And it took less than a minute to document your claim as b.s.
In most states, the acceptable options for manner-of-death classification are:
• Natural
• Accident
• Suicide
• Homicide
• Undetermined (or “Could not be Determined”)
National Association of Medical Examiners - A Guide For Manner of Death Classification
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Old 05-01-2015, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Report: Gray died of broken neck suffered in van

Ok wrong about what? Or is that all you had?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Thanks again Captain Obvious
Wrong again but thanks.
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Old 05-01-2015, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Report: Gray died of broken neck suffered in van

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Originally Posted by Surly View Post
Ok wrong about what? Or is that all you had?
I have more on this than you have time to read. But after 12 hours at the plant I went home to take care of my dad.

The problem is your perception of pre assumed innocence. We do not have to presume so. Only the state has to. And frankly the condition exists legally only inside the courtroom.

For example, someone can commit a crime in front of many witnesses, can be caught with the evidence of that crime and even admit to quilt to the arresting officers however, once inside the courtroom they are constitutionally protected to assume and plead innocent.

We see this all the time. Most folks don't get it.

At that time the state must then prosecute to prove guilt. The defense is require to do nothing. For if the prosecution cannot prove their case the defendant is free to go.

Media Reporters, police and officers of the court may not speak of quilt or innocence, because it may taint the jury pool. But they can most certainly assume and pursue their beliefs in either as they perform their duties.

For instance, the prosecutor can believe in guilt as they may assemble a case, The attorneys for the defense can also.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedicti...n+of+innocence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffin_v._United_States
http://nationalparalegal.edu/conLawC...denOfProof.asp


The public has no such restrictions in the legal sense however it is prudent to avoid making statements and accusations without facts to back them up. Not just for the defendant's protection but your own.
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Old 05-01-2015, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Report: Gray died of broken neck suffered in van

I call bull**** on that. Thats an inmate trying to score brownie points with the police department and LEO friendly judges.
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Old 05-02-2015, 07:16 AM
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Default Re: Report: Gray died of broken neck suffered in van

Yea, Franc I was aware. QUOTE=FrancSevin;749524]I have more on this than you have time to read. But after 12 hours at the plant I went home to take care of my dad.

The problem is your perception of pre assumed innocence. We do not have to presume so. Only the state has to. And frankly the condition exists legally only inside the courtroom.

For example, someone can commit a crime in front of many witnesses, can be caught with the evidence of that crime and even admit to quilt to the arresting officers however, once inside the courtroom they are constitutionally protected to assume and plead innocent.

We see this all the time. Most folks don't get it.

At that time the state must then prosecute to prove guilt. The defense is require to do nothing. For if the prosecution cannot prove their case the defendant is free to go.

Media Reporters, police and officers of the court may not speak of quilt or innocence, because it may taint the jury pool. But they can most certainly assume and pursue their beliefs in either as they perform their duties.

For instance, the prosecutor can believe in guilt as they may assemble a case, The attorneys for the defense can also.

presumption of innocence legal definition of presumption of innocence
Coffin v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Burden of Proof and Presumption of Innocence


The public has no such restrictions in the legal sense however it is prudent to avoid making statements and accusations without facts to back them up. Not just for the defendant's protection but your own.[/QUOTE]
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Old 05-02-2015, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: Report: Gray died of broken neck suffered in van

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hairy Jello View Post
The local ABC affiliate WJLA reported sources said the medical examiner’s report, contained in the police report handed over Thursday to the state attorney, found Gray’s wound was consistent with the bolt inside the back of the police van.
Quote:
The death of Freddie Gray has been ruled by the medical examiner's office a homicide caused by severe trauma.
Freddie Gray's Death Ruled a Homicide - ABC News

So yes, it is apparently true that underlying cause of Gray's death was by being slammed into the side of the van were a protruding bolt broke his neck. It was not a "self-inflicted wound" according the the medical examiner that ruled it a homicide. The police investigation also supported this and charges have been filed against the responsible police officers. As I understand it the police investigation also found that there was no probable cause for Gray's arrest in the first place and that he was wrongfully detained and arrested by the officers in violation of his rights.
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