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Old 12-11-2014, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: U.S. report condemns CIA harsh interrogations, says did not work

Has any fact been refuted with evidence? Don't think so. But hey, I am still waiting for all this violence you all predicted over this report.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CindyB View Post
*Sigh*
Wrong again foundit.
What the Right thinks is: we don't believe the morons who wrote this report BECAUSE THEY DID NOT DO THEIR DUE DILIGENCE. Dam, what is so hard to understand. they did no interviews, they didn't do squat so why the heck should we believe any crappola that comes out of their mouth.
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Old 12-11-2014, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: U.S. report condemns CIA harsh interrogations, says did not work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Has any fact been refuted with evidence? Don't think so. But hey, I am still waiting for all this violence you all predicted over this report.
Has any fact been presented with evidence? NO
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Old 12-11-2014, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: U.S. report condemns CIA harsh interrogations, says did not work

Quote:
Originally Posted by CindyB View Post
*Sigh*
Wrong again foundit.
What the Right thinks is: we don't believe the morons who wrote this report BECAUSE THEY DID NOT DO THEIR DUE DILIGENCE. Dam, what is so hard to understand. they did no interviews, they didn't do squat so why the heck should we believe any crappola that comes out of their mouth.
They used internal memos from the CIA itself to build this report. They took their information straight from the horse's redacted mouth.
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Old 12-11-2014, 08:24 PM
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Post Re: U.S. report condemns CIA harsh interrogations, says did not work

Quote:
Originally Posted by CindyB
Has any fact been presented with evidence? NO
I read this comment and it reeks of somebody who has no clue what is going on but is eager to make a sweeping rejection.
I think a better question for you would be SHOW US WHICH FACT that has been presented in this report that you think doesn't have "evidence".
How about you start here: http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/s...sscistudy1.pdf

(Or perhaps you can start by explaining why the CIA's memos are not evidence in and of themselves. Perhaps, under the previous president, the CIA simply started lying about their own practices in their own documents...
Is THAT what you think???)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
They used internal memos from the CIA itself to build this report. They took their information straight from the horse's redacted mouth.
I think some of these people have been listening to the right-wing talking points too much while refusing to question what they've been told. For some of them and the excuses thrown out there ...
It's rather obvious they don't know how the report was created but they really want to discredit it.

I think the most telling is Cheney's reaction:
Cheney acknowledged he had not read the entire 500-page report summary. He strongly defended the tactics, including waterboarding and rectal hydration.
“What are you prepared to do to get the truth against future attacks against the United States?” Cheney asked.
Cheney defends CIA interrogation techniques, calls Senate report 'deeply flawed' | Fox News
In the interview, Cheney says he hasn't read the report. He says he's seen "parts" of it. He's seen "summaries" of it.
If you listen to Cheney's interview, you'll hear where many on the right on this thread are parroting their talking points from. Meaningless complaints of "not interviewing", which some don't seem to comprehend is not the same thing as saying the report was not accurate...
If you listen to him, he does not deny the methods used. NEVER in his interview does he deny the methods detailed.
Instead, he tosses out attempts at justifying the acts.

Comments from the report, which include a picture of the documents statements ...
The 10 most harrowing excerpts from the CIA interrogation report - The Washington Post
Quote:
1. Of the 119 CIA detainees, 26 should not have been apprehended. Among them was Abu Hudhaifa, who was "subjected to ice water baths and 66 hours of standing sleep deprivation" before the CIA discovered that he was probably "not the person he was believed to be."

2. President Bush received his first briefing on enhanced interrogation techniques in 2006, about four years after the program started. According to CIA records, Bush expressed discomfort with an image of a detainee "chained to the ceiling, clothed in a diaper."

3. The CIA used rectal feeding and rectal rehydration on at least five detainees. Even though detainee Majid Khan was cooperating with feedings, for example, the CIA subjected him to "involuntary rectal feeding and rectal hydration" and would puree his lunch tray, which was then "rectally infused."

4. CIA interrogators threatened to harm the family members of at least three detainees. In one case, a detainee was told that his mother's throat would be cut.

5. The CIA apprehended two foreigners working for a "partner government" allied with the agency. They were subjected to sleep deprivation and dietary manipulation. The two detainees were trying to give the CIA information on possible future al-Qaeda attacks. It took them months to get released.

6. Abu Zubaida, the CIA's first detainee, spent 266 hours in a coffin-size confinement box. Zubaida, who was born Zayn al-Abidin Muhammed Hussein, often "cried, begged, pleaded, and whimpered" and was told that the only way he would leave the facility was in the coffin-shaped box.

7. When Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times, tried to breathe during the procedure, interrogators held his lips and poured water over his mouth.

8. The Senate committee found a photo of what looked like a well-used waterboarding station at a site where there was no reported use of the technique. The CIA could not explain the presence of the waterboard.

9. Of the at least 26 detainees who were wrongfully held, one was "intellectually challenged." Interrogators taped this detainee crying and used it as leverage against one of his relatives.

10. CIA officers would "strip a detainee naked, shackle him in the standing position for up to 72 hours, and douse [him] repeatedly with cold water."

I post this and think to myself how we'll see an about face from some from "you can't believe the report" to "what they're describing ain't bad".
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2014, 09:37 AM
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Default Re: U.S. report condemns CIA harsh interrogations, says did not work

Some people are arguing that the report is biased, or not telling the whole story
but um.
but there's very little in this report that's NEW. much of it has been covered in other studies and reports.
Notably the report released in 2013 by a "blue ribbon" Bipartisan panel. But over and above that in term of evidence then there's the overflow of news reports and testimony from
soldiers who've testified under oath and given news reports,
From CIA personnel,
From FBI interrogators,
From military interrogators ,
from conservative Military tribunal judges who've THROWN OUT terror suspects BECAUSE testimony obtained by torture is illegal.
From red cross investigators,
from other human rights groups investigations which have obtained CIA and other dept records via FOIA request that document prisoners taken to secret bases who've died and the military autopsy reports say they they died from BLUNT FORCE to the head and Choking.
There's are old reports from a former U.K. Ambassador who reported secret CIA bases in the country he was stationed in Uzbekistan where he had evidence of torture and of prisoners going in but never coming out.

It's just blatant partisan denial to claim that this report is somehow all we have to go on and it's some how not to be taken seriously. It's denials are kind of a joke.

frankly i think the report is WATERED DOWN. There are reports of various countries LOBBYING congress to remove info of their co-operation with the CIA's dirt. And it doesn't seem to list the extent of deaths in custody that's come out in other reports.


I wonder this post will be ignored by partisans who refuse to believe that our country or Bush and crew or the CIA have down wrong here?

some links in next post
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2014, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: U.S. report condemns CIA harsh interrogations, says did not work

DEATH UNDER U.S. INTERROGATION
http://www.projectcensored.org/top-s...stan-and-iraq/
Tom Dispatch.com, March 5, 2006
Title: “Tracing the Trail of Torture: Embedding Torture as Policy from Guantanamo to Iraq”
Author: Dahr Jamail

Faculty Evaluator: Rabi Michael Robinson
Student Researchers: Michael B Januleski Jr. and Jessica Rodas

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) released documents of forty-four autopsies held in Afghanistan and Iraq October 25, 2005. Twenty-one of those deaths were listed as homicides. The documents show that detainees died during and after interrogations by Navy SEALs, Military Intelligence, and Other Government Agency (OGA).

“These documents present irrefutable evidence that U.S. operatives tortured detainees to death during interrogation,” said Amrit Singh, an attorney with the ACLU. “The public has a right to know who authorized the use of torture techniques and why these deaths have been covered up.”

The Department of Defense released the autopsy reports in response to a Freedom of Information Act request filed by the ACLU, the Center for Constitutional Rights, Physicians for Human Rights, Veterans for Common Sense, and Veterans for Peace....


-----------------------------
Human Rights Investigator, Attorney John Sifton: Torture Investigation Should Focus on Estimated 100 Prisoner Deaths
Human Rights Investigator, Attorney John Sifton: Torture Investigation Should Focus on Estimated 100 Prisoner Deaths | Democracy Now!
-----------------------------
The CIA’s latest “ghost detainee”
The CIA’s latest “ghost detainee” - Salon.com
"....During the worst abuses at Abu Ghraib, for example, some “ghost detainees” were kept off the books at the military prison and hidden from the Red Cross. One of those prisoners, Manadel al-Jamadi, died during a CIA interrogation in a shower room at Abu Ghraib on Nov. 4, 2003. The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology later ruled al-Jamadi’s death a homicide, caused by “blunt force injuries to the torso complicated by compromised respiration....”
-----------------------------
U.S.: Soldiers Tell of Detainee Abuse in Iraq
Abusive Techniques Were Authorized, Soldiers’ Complaints Ignored

U.S.: Soldiers Tell of Detainee Abuse in Iraq | Human Rights Watch
-----------------------------
'US a police state, Obama consciously allows torture' – CIA veteran John Kiriakou
'US a police state, Obama consciously allows torture' ? CIA veteran John Kiriakou ? RT USA


................
Craig Murray UK ambassador to Uzbekistan reported CIA supervised torture and death
Torture doublespeak - Washington Times
link
"One of the CIA’s jets transporting suspected terrorists made 10 trips to Uzbekistan. Craig Murray, the former British ambassador to that country, told Mr. Pelley about the techniques of Uzbek interrogators: “drowning and suffocation, rape was used… also the insertion of limbs in boiling liquid… it’s quite common.” Mr. Murray also told Brian Ross of ABC News that he received photos of one prisoner who was actually boiled to death.

That corpse may not have been a person the CIA kidnapped, but how do we know? In a March 6 New York Times story on these horrifying renditions, a CIA official “would not discuss any legal directive under which the agency operated, but said that the CIA has existing authorities to lawfully conduct these operations.” "

http://rt.com/op-edge/213311-uzbekis...ure-uk-poland/
‘CIA will continue torture with help of mediators’ – UK's former envoy to Uzbekistan
Published time: December 11, 2014 00:56

......
Gitmo prosecutor of the Mohemed Jawad teen capture in 2002 RESINGED. nd the Gitmo Judge tossed out the case.

" the prosecutor in his proposed trial, Lt. Col. Darrel Vandeveld, resigned.

Lt. Col. Darrel VandeveldStating that he had once been a “true believer,” but had ended up feeling “truly deceived,” Lt. Col. Vandeveld explained, as I described it in an article two months ago, that he had come to regard the Commissions as “a dysfunctional system, which, both through accident and design, prevented the disclosure of evidence essential to the defense, thereby ensuring that no fair trial was possible.” He also “described how evidence proving that Jawad was a juvenile at the time of his capture, that he was tricked into joining an insurgent group and was drugged before the attack, and that two other men had confessed to the crime, had been deliberately suppressed.”
As Col. Henley explained in his ruling, “The military commission concludes the effect of the death threats which produced the accused’s first confession to the Afghan police had not dissipated by the second confession to the US. In other words, the subsequent confession was itself the product of the preceding death threats.” - See more at: As Judge Orders Release Of Tortured Guantánamo Prisoner, Government Refuses To Concede Defeat | Andy Worthington

Incomplete List of resignations from the Guantanamo military commission
https://en.wikipedia.org
/wiki/List_of_resignations_from_the_Guantanamo_military_ commission

Seventh Guantanamo Prosecutor resigns over ethical issues - Wikinews, the free news source
..................
2008 report on Bagram
CIA accused of torture at Bagram base
CIA accused of torture at Bagram base | World news | The Guardian

."....It quotes Cofer Black, the former director of the CIA's counter-terrorist branch, as telling a congressional intelligence committee: "All you need to know: there was a before 9/11, and there was an after 9/11... After 9/11 the gloves come off." ..."

.........

etc etc etc..

If you want to know if the Cia and U.S. Military have tortured and supervised torture by others there's PLENTY of information available.
If you don't want to know then you can ignore it and deny it.
it's your choice.
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2014, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: U.S. report condemns CIA harsh interrogations, says did not work

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

I never said I haven't heard about it in the last 10 years.
I don't know why you are again repeating that pointless canard.



I never said they should have no secrets.

Seriously. Stop making up nonsense b.s. to claim I believe and LISTEN for a change...

Torture. THAT is the issue.
Not whether I believe the CIA should have NO secrets. But rather TORTURE is the issue.
Got it?


Let me put it this way.
We have laws in this country.
There is no way in hell our government could perform these "interrogations" on U.S. soil without being subjected to legal consequences.
For our government to move activities to other countries in order to avoid our own government's laws should be something that raises serious questions and concern for people.
Oh please, quit your whining, everyone knew they were being tortured, including the democrats that you voted for. To come out now as if it is news is really pathetic. It's nothing but political BS to get you guys on another tirade before you lose the senate.
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Old 12-12-2014, 10:59 AM
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Default Re: U.S. report condemns CIA harsh interrogations, says did not work

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Some people are arguing that the report is biased, or not telling the whole story
but um.
but there's very little in this report that's NEW. much of it has been covered in other studies and reports.
Notably the report released in 2013 by a "blue ribbon" Bipartisan panel. But over and above that in term of evidence then there's the overflow of news reports and testimony from
soldiers who've testified under oath and given news reports,
From CIA personnel,
From FBI interrogators,
From military interrogators ,
from conservative Military tribunal judges who've THROWN OUT terror suspects BECAUSE testimony obtained by torture is illegal.
From red cross investigators,
from other human rights groups investigations which have obtained CIA and other dept records via FOIA request that document prisoners taken to secret bases who've died and the military autopsy reports say they they died from BLUNT FORCE to the head and Choking.
There's are old reports from a former U.K. Ambassador who reported secret CIA bases in the country he was stationed in Uzbekistan where he had evidence of torture and of prisoners going in but never coming out.

It's just blatant partisan denial to claim that this report is somehow all we have to go on and it's some how not to be taken seriously. It's denials are kind of a joke.

frankly i think the report is WATERED DOWN. There are reports of various countries LOBBYING congress to remove info of their co-operation with the CIA's dirt. And it doesn't seem to list the extent of deaths in custody that's come out in other reports.


I wonder this post will be ignored by partisans who refuse to believe that our country or Bush and crew or the CIA have down wrong here?

some links in next post
The thing that is watered down is the aftermath of 9/11/01. Personally I could care less about the prisoners, some of you think they are innocents pulled off the street and tortured for no reason, the years after 9/11 were tough and a lot of new things happened and a lot of new things had to be tried. Fu*ck those azzholes. I think when the bleeding hearts start sniveling about the poor terrorists, they need to sit down and watch people jumping off the WTC towers.
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:04 AM
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Default Re: U.S. report condemns CIA harsh interrogations, says did not work

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I read this comment and it reeks of somebody who has no clue what is going on but is eager to make a sweeping rejection.
I think a better question for you would be SHOW US WHICH FACT that has been presented in this report that you think doesn't have "evidence".
How about you start here: http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/s...sscistudy1.pdf

(Or perhaps you can start by explaining why the CIA's memos are not evidence in and of themselves. Perhaps, under the previous president, the CIA simply started lying about their own practices in their own documents...
Is THAT what you think???)


I think some of these people have been listening to the right-wing talking points too much while refusing to question what they've been told. For some of them and the excuses thrown out there ...
It's rather obvious they don't know how the report was created but they really want to discredit it.

I think the most telling is Cheney's reaction:
Cheney acknowledged he had not read the entire 500-page report summary. He strongly defended the tactics, including waterboarding and rectal hydration.
“What are you prepared to do to get the truth against future attacks against the United States?” Cheney asked.
Cheney defends CIA interrogation techniques, calls Senate report 'deeply flawed' | Fox News
In the interview, Cheney says he hasn't read the report. He says he's seen "parts" of it. He's seen "summaries" of it.
If you listen to Cheney's interview, you'll hear where many on the right on this thread are parroting their talking points from. Meaningless complaints of "not interviewing", which some don't seem to comprehend is not the same thing as saying the report was not accurate...
If you listen to him, he does not deny the methods used. NEVER in his interview does he deny the methods detailed.
Instead, he tosses out attempts at justifying the acts.

Comments from the report, which include a picture of the documents statements ...
The 10 most harrowing excerpts from the CIA interrogation report - The Washington Post



I post this and think to myself how we'll see an about face from some from "you can't believe the report" to "what they're describing ain't bad".
Whaaaa, maybe they should have stopped the 9/11 attack. Don't lose too much sleep over these pukes. They are all plotting to kill you and your family right now.
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: U.S. report condemns CIA harsh interrogations, says did not work

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I read this comment and it reeks of somebody who has no clue what is going on but is eager to make a sweeping rejection.
I think a better question for you would be SHOW US WHICH FACT that has been presented in this report that you think doesn't have "evidence".
How about you start here: http://www.intelligence.senate.gov/s...sscistudy1.pdf

(Or perhaps you can start by explaining why the CIA's memos are not evidence in and of themselves. Perhaps, under the previous president, the CIA simply started lying about their own practices in their own documents...
Is THAT what you think???)


I think some of these people have been listening to the right-wing talking points too much while refusing to question what they've been told. For some of them and the excuses thrown out there ...
It's rather obvious they don't know how the report was created but they really want to discredit it.

I think the most telling is Cheney's reaction:
Cheney acknowledged he had not read the entire 500-page report summary. He strongly defended the tactics, including waterboarding and rectal hydration.
“What are you prepared to do to get the truth against future attacks against the United States?” Cheney asked.
Cheney defends CIA interrogation techniques, calls Senate report 'deeply flawed' | Fox News
In the interview, Cheney says he hasn't read the report. He says he's seen "parts" of it. He's seen "summaries" of it.
If you listen to Cheney's interview, you'll hear where many on the right on this thread are parroting their talking points from. Meaningless complaints of "not interviewing", which some don't seem to comprehend is not the same thing as saying the report was not accurate...
If you listen to him, he does not deny the methods used. NEVER in his interview does he deny the methods detailed.
Instead, he tosses out attempts at justifying the acts.

Comments from the report, which include a picture of the documents statements ...
The 10 most harrowing excerpts from the CIA interrogation report - The Washington Post



I post this and think to myself how we'll see an about face from some from "you can't believe the report" to "what they're describing ain't bad".
When you start feeling sorry for: fundamentalist Muslims, Islamic extremists, terrorists, or whatever you want to call the sub-human slime, watch a Youtube video of them stoning women to death with Cinder Blocks while they laugh and film it with their Smart Phones.


Quote:
Cheney acknowledged he had not read the entire 500-page report summary. He strongly defended the tactics, including waterboarding and rectal hydration.
“What are you prepared to do to get the truth against future attacks against the United States?” Cheney asked.
Cheney poses a good question.
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