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News & Current Events Discuss Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short at the General Forum; So maybe extend the subsidies huh? They are cost effective enough. Originally Posted by FrancSevin Per Mikeyy's Hail Mary suggestion,,,,Has ...

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Old 11-20-2014, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

So maybe extend the subsidies huh? They are cost effective enough.


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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Per Mikeyy's Hail Mary suggestion,,,,Has anybody here looked at solar panels on their house?

Even with the Subsidies, which BTW expire this December 31, they are not universally cost effective.
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

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Originally Posted by CindyB View Post
They have been talking about euthanizing all the Desert Tortoise around here, can you believe it?
Reid, his son, and a Chinese company need the land to build yet another boondoggle solar plant.

Can't have them spending another 56 million to move tortoises from 38 million worth of land for which they paid 4 million.
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Old 11-20-2014, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
So maybe extend the subsidies huh? They are cost effective enough.
Who are the subsidies cost effective to? Not to me.
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Old 11-20-2014, 12:01 PM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
So maybe extend the subsidies huh? They are cost effective enough.
Subsidies are costly, never cost effective.

But my question was has anybody ever done it? Either looked into it or actually installed a solar system with government help?

Since you live in sunny southern Cal and love these government programs, why have you not taken advantage Mikeyy?
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Old 11-20-2014, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

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Originally Posted by CindyB View Post


And I'm shocked they put some of the blame on chemtrails, AKA contrails, of all things.
I'm surprised and also not surprised. If it is materially affecting their output, which I assume would have to be 5% or more, then they would have to acknowledge it, in order to explain the discrepancy. On the other hand, no govt dept or agency has ever acknowledged the existence of chemtrails. They would be acknowledging the existence of "weather management" if they did.
There are days here in Oklahoma when a clear day with no clouds becomes within a couple of hours a partly cloudy day, due to the proliferation of chemtrails. Until you've watched them be deposited, to expand into full grown cloud banks, you won't believe in their existence. Once you see this happen, you'll understand how this massive project overestimated so badly the amount of sunlight available to be collected, in spite of detailed meteorologic data from the US Weather Service.
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Old 11-20-2014, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
The Feds captured a lot o them, and as I understand it, they forced developers to capture them before disturbing the habitats. All were placed in care facilities at great cost borne by the Developers.

A good many ranchers were run off their land over the Tortoise. And now, the feds say Euthanize them?

One cannot make this stuff up.
Desert Tortoise Faces Threat From Conservation Center

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Desert Tortoise Faces Threat From Conservation Center


LAS VEGAS (AP) For decades, the vulnerable desert tortoise has led a sheltered existence.

Developers have taken pains to keep the animal safe. It's been protected from meddlesome hikers by the threat of prison time. And wildlife officials have set the species up on a sprawling conservation reserve outside Las Vegas.


But the pampered desert dweller now faces a threat from the very people who have nurtured it.

Federal funds are running out at the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center and officials plan to close the site and euthanize hundreds of the tortoises they've been caring for since the animals were added to the endangered species list in 1990.

"It's the lesser of two evils, but it's still evil," said U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service desert tortoise recovery coordinator Roy Averill-Murray during a visit to the soon-to-be-shuttered reserve at the southern edge of the Las Vegas Valley last week.

Biologists went about their work examining tortoises for signs of disease as Averill-Murray walked among the reptile pens. But the scrubby 220-acre refuge area will stop taking new animals in the coming months. Most that arrive in the fall will simply be put down, late-emerging victims of budget problems that came from the same housing bubble that put a neighborhood of McMansions at the edge of the once-remote site.

The Bureau of Land Management has paid for the holding and research facility with fees imposed on developers who disturb tortoise habitat on public land. As the housing boom swept through southern Nevada in the 2000s, the tortoise budget swelled. But when the recession hit, the housing market contracted, and the bureau and its local government partners began struggling to meet the center's $1 million annual budget.

Housing never fully recovered, and the federal mitigation fee that developers pay has brought in just $290,000 during the past 11 months. Local partners, which collect their own tortoise fees, have pulled out of the project.

"With the money going down and more and more tortoises coming in, it never would have added up," said BLM spokeswoman Hillerie Patton.

Back at the conservation center, a large refrigerator labeled "carcass freezer" hummed in the desert sun as scientists examined the facility's 1,400 inhabitants to find those hearty enough to release into the wild. Officials expect to euthanize more than half the animals in the coming months in preparation for closure at the end of 2014.

The desert tortoise is a survivor that has toddled around the Southwest for 200 million years. But ecologists say the loss of the conservation center represents a harmful blow in southern Nevada for an animal that has held onto some unfortunate evolutionary quirks that impede its coexistence with strip malls, new homes and solar plants.

Laws to protect the panicky plodders ban hikers from picking them up, since the animals are likely dehydrate themselves by voiding a year's worth of stored water when handled. When they're moved, they nearly always attempt to trudge back to their burrows, foiling attempts to keep them out of harm's way. They're also beset by respiratory infections and other illnesses.

No more than 100,000 tortoises are thought to survive in the habitat where millions once burrowed across parts of Utah, California, Arizona and Nevada.

The animals were once so abundant that tourists would scoop them up as souvenirs. Many quickly realized the shy grass-eaters don't make ideal pets. (For one thing, they can live for 100 years.) And once the species was classified as threatened on the endangered species list, people rushed to give them back.

Former pets make up the majority of the tortoises at the conservation center, where they spend their days staring down jackrabbits and ducking out of the sun into protective PVC piping tucked into the rocky desert floor. Most of these animals are not suitable for release, either infected with disease or otherwise too feeble to survive.

Averill-Murray looks as world-weary as the animals he studies. He wants to save at least the research function of the center and is looking for alternative funding sources.

"It's not the most desirable model to fund recovery on the back of tortoise habitat," he said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
Reid, his son, and a Chinese company need the land to build yet another boondoggle solar plant.

Can't have them spending another 56 million to move tortoises from 38 million worth of land for which they paid 4 million.
Ain't that the truth.
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Old 11-20-2014, 04:08 PM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

Thanks for doing the research Cindy. A lot of this came up last summer when a rancher was under siege. He still is. And Harry Reid's stinky prints are all over that episode also.
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Old 11-21-2014, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

Go tell the politicians and the oil companies and farmers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Subsidies are costly, never cost effective.

But my question was has anybody ever done it? Either looked into it or actually installed a solar system with government help?

Since you live in sunny southern Cal and love these government programs, why have you not taken advantage Mikeyy?
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Old 11-21-2014, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

It is ironic to see the same anti corporate blowhards that constantly bray about evil rich companies picking our pockets and using their political connections to corrupt our elected officials support tax payer funded gifts for the solar plant owned in part by Google and an investment group with Robert Kennedy Jr as a partner. But it is all good because it is green energy.
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Old 11-21-2014, 08:16 AM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

Are you mad at Google and Robert Kennedy now? Are they on the AZ's anti American list too?
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It is ironic to see the same anti corporate blowhards that constantly bray about evil rich companies picking our pockets and using their political connections to corrupt our elected officials support tax payer funded gifts for the solar plant owned in part by Google and an investment group with Robert Kennedy Jr as a partner. But it is all good because it is green energy.
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