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News & Current Events Discuss Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Mikeyy So use oil and coal or you are retarded? Right now we are dependent on oil ...

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Old 11-19-2014, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
So use oil and coal or you are retarded?
Right now we are dependent on oil I would like to see the USA (World really phase out of using it). Please keep in mind that alternatives such as wind, solar, nuclear, coal, etc. do have their their draw backs. It seems like for now we are stuck with a mix. Name calling won't help.
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Old 11-19-2014, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

I didn't name call. Just sayin'
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Right now we are dependent on oil I would like to see the USA (World really phase out of using it). Please keep in mind that alternatives such as wind, solar, nuclear, coal, etc. do have their their draw backs. It seems like for now we are stuck with a mix. Name calling won't help.
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Old 11-19-2014, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

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The article cited is just a small part of the problems mentioned. Among others:

The plant is killing birds at the rate of over 700/day. Many of these are species on the endangered or threatened lists. There are so many being killed that one proposal to locate the dead and injured birds is to train dogs to find them.

This does not include land dwelling species, the most prominent of which is the desert tortoise, which were moved at a cost of 56 million. Turns out that the move didn't work as well as expected, and a recent proposal is use another hundreds of acres to fence and dedicate to desert tortoise habitat. There are also several other species of endangered mammals and reptiles and plants that have lost their environment.

The plant is now allotted 5.5 times the original estimate of gas usage, while the plant is currently producing about half the design energy. I cannot find estimates of increased pollution, but presumably 5.5 times more natural gas would produce 5.5 times the pollution.

Pilots are complaining of the danger of stray light blinding them. (It is illegal to shine laser beams or other high intensity light at planes. Apparently this does not apply to solar mirrors)

Plant construction and footprint destroyed 3500 acres of public land. By contrast a nuclear plant producing a similar amount of energy would use 38 acres, and at less potential damage to the environment.

All this from a plant paid for with a 1.3 billion loan guarantee from the taxpayer, which the plant owners claim to be unable to pay. Their solution is a 500+ million grant from the taxpayer so that the loan will not fall in arrears. Said grant has been applied for. I'd give odds they will get it.

There is good news concerning California solar, however. Last month a similar proposed plant was scrapped.
56 million to move turtles??? Damn, I'm in the wrong business.
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Old 11-19-2014, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

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Do you guys all work for big oil? I know lots of people with solar on their homes and they like it. I have had solar water heating and it works great. Kept my pool at 90 degrees. Too hot really. Ya'll keep those negative stories coming while you watch your neighbors install panels.
I'm sure the technology will get there someday and make it affordable, but I don't think we will replace oil and gas for many many moons.
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Old 11-19-2014, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

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56 million to move turtles??? Damn, I'm in the wrong business.
Saving desert tortoises is a costly hurdle for solar projects | VenturaCountyTrails.org News

The story is worth reading.

Seems that the tortoises liked it just fine where they were and keep trying to go home. The latest plan is to establish an enclosed plot and release the tortoises in the parcel. Like placing them in a zoo.
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Old 11-19-2014, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

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Saving desert tortoises is a costly hurdle for solar projects | VenturaCountyTrails.org News

The story is worth reading.

Seems that the tortoises liked it just fine where they were and keep trying to go home. The latest plan is to establish an enclosed plot and release the tortoises in the parcel. Like placing them in a zoo.
it cost 2.5 million to put up 50 miles of intricate tortoise proof fencing and it cost 56 million to move them. How do they justify 56 million? I call it extortion, pure and simple.
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

They have been talking about euthanizing all the Desert Tortoise around here, can you believe it?
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Old 11-19-2014, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

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They have been talking about euthanizing all the Desert Tortoise around here, can you believe it?
The Feds captured a lot o them, and as I understand it, they forced developers to capture them before disturbing the habitats. All were placed in care facilities at great cost borne by the Developers.

A good many ranchers were run off their land over the Tortoise. And now, the feds say Euthanize them?

One cannot make this stuff up.
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Old 11-19-2014, 07:39 PM
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They have been talking about euthanizing all the Desert Tortoise around here, can you believe it?
The same people that charged 56 million to relocate, will charge another 156 million to euthanize them.
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: Giant Ivanpah solar plant south of Las Vegas falls short

Per Mikeyy's Hail Mary suggestion,,,,Has anybody here looked at solar panels on their house?

Even with the Subsidies, which BTW expire this December 31, they are not universally cost effective.
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