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News & Current Events Discuss Man who killed burglary suspects cleared at the General Forum; Originally Posted by foundit66 1) "hardly tested" vs "no testing" for gun ownership. "Hardly tested" is incredibly subjective. I don't ...

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Old 07-08-2008, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Man who killed burglary suspects cleared

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
1) "hardly tested" vs "no testing" for gun ownership.
"Hardly tested" is incredibly subjective. I don't agree with your assessment of "hardly tested".
Okay. And there is more risk in car ownership. I think your risk comparison is skewed.

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2) Along the lines of "driving", in addition to driving testing / licensing / renewal and car registration => gun owner testing and licensing guns...
There is another angle of car drivers being required to carry insurance. I think something similar could be in order for gun owners, especially if they insist on carrying.
In this case carrying isn't at issue since we are protect OUR property of our neighbors.

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We have laws that require people drive on the streets. They can't drive on the sidewalks.
It doesn't matter if the driver doesn't hit anybody on the side-walk. He still can't drive there.
And we have specific incidences where deadly force is authorized. You can't just shoot your gun in public for no reason.

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Likewise, just because an injured party can sue doesn't excuse poor use when the shooter gets lucky and his (hypothetical!) carelessness doesn't hurt others.
It works for cars.

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No.
The basis of the law and its boundaries are evaluated through potential scenarios. I'm simply evaluating the legal situation by examining the boundaries of what the law allows.
And I'm pointing out that there are other laws framing that law that limit it.

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In at least 38 states, they disagree.
I suspect that the number of states that allow people to do what Horn did in Texas to be incredibly small.
Unfortunately, the informative resource you gave earlier links to "legalese" of the individual state laws, so I can't narrow it down further...
(but it was a lot better than nothing.)
And I suspect that even in those states, many prosecutors would probably elect not to press charges. It's his call.

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I've read stories where a kid was punished because another kid saw the first kid with a weapon, like a knife or a gun.
But in your scenario, the first kid is allowed to. While a metal detector could have prevented or discouraged him from bringing that gun onto school grounds, you would declare he has a right to do so right up until the moment he first squeezes the trigger.
Are you talking about colleges or high school? I doubt I'd agree with letting high school students carry. College students maybe. High school teachers maybe.

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And nobody can say a damn word about it. Another person seeing the gun wouldn't prevent it, cause the other person has no recourse.

Your argument is like arguing for the legalization to CARRY drugs, but actually USING them would be illegal...
No it's not. Drugs are not guns. Another questionable comparison.

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Allow me to make plain that I am not arguing against "some people should have guns". I agree with you here.
I can't think of anything in my personal opinion which would have prevented Horn from having the gun.
I object to how he used it.
Well why did you move to schools? That's another whole issue.
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Old 07-08-2008, 11:43 PM
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Post Re: Man who killed burglary suspects cleared

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Originally Posted by fxashun View Post
Okay. And there is more risk in car ownership. I think your risk comparison is skewed.
I would venture that the "risk comparison" should work more on a "per use" basis.
People don't use guns as often as they use cars.
A car owner will probably use his car about on a daily basis.

Use of a gun in self-defense? Especially for somebody not trained? Much riskier if they had to use it anywhere near that often.


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Originally Posted by fxashun
In this case carrying isn't at issue since we are protect OUR property of our neighbors.
I was primarily speaking hypothetically of a proposal.
But you're right that my opinion for insurance wouldn't be applied to that.


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Originally Posted by fxashun
And we have specific incidences where deadly force is authorized. You can't just shoot your gun in public for no reason.
....
It works for cars.

You're making your car analogy work rather well...
(no sarcasm)


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Originally Posted by fxashun
And I'm pointing out that there are other laws framing that law that limit it.
In some of these hypothetical cases, yes.
In others, no.


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Originally Posted by fxashun
And I suspect that even in those states, many prosecutors would probably elect not to press charges. It's his call.
Prosecutors decision, and his decision would depend upon the circumstances...
Take the Texas example for instance. It looks like Horn's actions were CLEARLY protected by the laws on the books (I think in both our opinions), yet the Texas prosecutor decided to take it to trial anyways.
If the prosecutor took it to trial in the state where it was ACTUALLY legal, is it that much of a stretch to see it taken to trial in a state where it wasn't legal?


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Originally Posted by fxashun
Are you talking about colleges or high school? I doubt I'd agree with letting high school students carry. College students maybe. High school teachers maybe.
Both regarding examples, but your clarification is important for actual differentiation on where the EXISTING standards lie.
We agree high school students shouldn't carry.


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Originally Posted by fxashun
No it's not. Drugs are not guns. Another questionable comparison.
It's an analogy...


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Originally Posted by fxashun
Well why did you move to schools? That's another whole issue.
Cause I think we both made ourselves clear ON topic, and then when people started discussing more generic I did as well.
Plus, as I pointed out, gun advocates have used the school shootings in their arguments for why guns should be carried, ergo I thought it worthy to explore the ramifications of such an idea.
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:10 AM
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Default Re: Man who killed burglary suspects cleared

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Cause I think we both made ourselves clear ON topic, and then when people started discussing more generic I did as well.
Plus, as I pointed out, gun advocates have used the school shootings in their arguments for why guns should be carried, ergo I thought it worthy to explore the ramifications of such an idea.
Well since we've exhausted the actual topic, I'm gonna save some time for other concerns and call this one done. I agree with this ruling, I think the law worked just as it should have. In fact, I hope his legal fees are covered by some concerned citizens group, and I think there was a fund set up.

To address your "right to carry" concern, we just dealt with that here in Ga. But I think that deserves it's own thread.
Local folks react to new Georgia gun law / - Headlines for Augusta, the CSRA, Georgia, and South Carolina
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