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News & Current Events Discuss Court rejects death penalty for raping children at the General Forum; WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court on Wednesday outlawed executions of people convicted of raping a child. In a 5-4 ...

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Old 06-25-2008, 03:58 PM
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Post Court rejects death penalty for raping children

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Supreme Court on Wednesday outlawed executions of people convicted of raping a child. In a 5-4 vote, the court said the Louisiana law allowing the death penalty to be imposed in such cases violates the Constitution's ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion. His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented.

There has not been an execution in the United States for a crime that did not also involve the death of the victim in 44 years.

Patrick Kennedy, 43, was sentenced to death for the rape of his 8-year-old stepdaughter in Louisiana. He is one of two people in the United States, both in Louisiana, who have been condemned to death for a rape that was not also accompanied by a killing.

The Supreme Court banned executions for rape in 1977 in a case in which the victim was an adult woman.

Forty-five states ban the death penalty for any kind of rape, and the other five states allow it for child rapists. Montana, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Texas allow executions in such cases if the defendant had previously been convicted of raping a child.

The court struggled over how to apply standards laid out in decisions barring executions for the mentally retarded and people younger than 18 when they committed murder. In those cases, the court cited trends in the states away from capital punishment.

In this case, proponents of the Louisiana law said the trend was toward the death penalty, a point mentioned by Justice Samuel Alito in his dissent.

"The harm that is caused to the victims and to society at large by the worst child rapists is grave," Alito wrote. "It is the judgment of the Louisiana lawmakers and those in an increasing number of other states that these harms justify the death penalty."

The Associated Press: Court rejects death penalty for raping children

I'm with Alito.
I think the impact to a child of being a victim of rape is huge and very much comparable to murder.
I remember hearing (rumor) that in law-suit cases, a "dead" victim was often worth le$$ than a live one. I think the underlying societal mechanism demonstrates how serious living through a tragedy can be very comparable to "just" dying because of it.

I think the court got this one wrong.
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Court rejects death penalty for raping children

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"The death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion. His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented.

But Kennedy said the absence of any executions for rape and the small number of states that allow it demonstrate "there is a national consensus against capital punishment for the crime of child rape."
This should alarm every citizen of this country...

Kennedy just stated that PUBLIC OPINION directed his position...

"Looks like most people don't want it, so that means we shouldn't have it."...
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:58 PM
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Post Re: Court rejects death penalty for raping children

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This should alarm every citizen of this country...
Kennedy just stated that PUBLIC OPINION directed his position...
"Looks like most people don't want it, so that means we shouldn't have it."...

I think they crossed the line there too.


But on a separate note, it didn't take long before people pinged the candidates...
Asked about today's US Supreme Court ruling that sentencing someone to death for raping a child is unconstitutional, Obama said he disagreed with such a broad ban.

"I have said repeatedly that I think that the death penalty should be applied in very narrow circumstances for the most egregious of crimes. I think that the rape of a small child, 6 or 8 years old, is a heinous crime," he said, adding that if a state determines the death penalty should apply in such cases, they should be allowed to impose it.

The high court's ruling invalidates laws in six states that allow the death penalty if child rape cases when the child is not killed.
Obama backs death for child rapists - 2008 Presidential Campaign Blog - Political Intelligence - Boston.com
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: Court rejects death penalty for raping children

I'll allow myself to see a little grey here...

Still...

Anyone who rapes a child under 12 years of age should be stoned, drawn, quartered, and crucified.

I have no sympathies whatsoever for those who would sexually abuse children. None.

Children are the one sacred, holy thing in this world we SHOULD all be able to agree upon. A child should never be allowed to become a victim to deviant sexual predators, regardless of their 'status'.
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Old 06-26-2008, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Court rejects death penalty for raping children

Some of you may have read before that there is a person in my life who was raped at the age of five. While that crime went unreported for many years because of the fear and manipulation that took place (as it does with most victims of friends/family), let me relate this person's life after the rape.
Insecurity, life threatening obesity, bipolar disorder, paranoid schizophrenia accompanied by visual and auditory hallucinations, obsessive compulsions, attempted suicide.
Those are words on paper. But I knew this person as a bright and charming playmate before the occurrence. It was like a light dimmed and went out when this thing happened. And I didn't even know about it till years later.
A lot of people started to wonder if there had been an illness that did something to this child's brain. Like when some children used to be affected by the measles or a bad ear infection and it left them permanently disabled.
With today's modern technology, there would have been better tests to determine the cause.
The suicide attempt is what brought out the psychologically aching and physically gruesome tale of the first rape at 5 and another (same perpetrator) at 8 yrs old.
Besides the psychological problems there are residual physical problems as well.

What do you think my opinion of this court decision is?

That person took the life and future of my playmate and I still blame myself that I could have loved a friend so well and not known.

I am admittedly just weary of the back breaking over consideration that's been given to -not the accused-but the tried and guilty in our country, when the victims have to be dead or robbed of a great deal of money before they are worthy enough to have equal justice under the law.
The fact these kids don't die is a testament to their spirit and willpower in the face of the most awful evil anyone can imagine.
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Last edited by saltwn; 06-26-2008 at 06:30 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 06-26-2008, 12:38 PM
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I am admittedly just weary of the back breaking over consideration that's been given to -not the accused-but the tried and guilty in our country, when the victims have to be dead or robbed of a great deal of money before they are worthy enough to have equal justice under the law.
The fact these kids don't die is a testament to their spirit and willpower in the face of the most awful evil anyone can imagine.
Just look at the recent decision of the SC on terrorists at Gitmo...

These are non-Americans that have never been on American soil in their life, yet 5 people on a court believe they have the same rights as your average Joe...
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Court rejects death penalty for raping children

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Just look at the recent decision of the SC on terrorists at Gitmo...

These are non-Americans that have never been on American soil in their life, yet 5 people on a court believe they have the same rights as your average Joe...
Your reasoning is flawed since who is to say that only Americans have rights? If that is the case, then they should be handed over to their country, for them to handle them according to their laws. You can't be advocating that because these people are not American they have no rights,

Furthermore, I notice you refer to them as "terrorists at Gitmo". Who determined they are terrorists? Where is the evidence and the proof? I am not saying they are not, but it has not been proven to me that they are (individually). That is what a civil trial is for (or a military tribunal), to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that a person deserves to be kept locked up for a determined amount of time.

Have you noticed that some American soldiers in Iraq have committed barbaric crimes, yet they are still sent here to be accountable for their actions, to have a trial and be judged by their peers? How would you feel if the Iraqi government (or any other for that matter) indiscriminately took them based on their intelligence, locked them in a cell, and denied them the basic rights of a trial? I am sure you'd be outraged, because they're American, oh brother, I would be more worried about what it is the govenrment wants to hide by denying them these basic rights... perhaps that their intelligence in detaining some of these men was as flawed as the intelligence they worked on to invade Iraq in the first place?
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:17 PM
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Your reasoning is flawed since who is to say that only Americans have rights? If that is the case, then they should be handed over to their country, for them to handle them according to their laws. You can't be advocating that because these people are not American they have no rights,
Did I say that?...

I believe I didn't...In fact, I KNOW I didn't...
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Court rejects death penalty for raping children

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Did I say that?...

I believe I didn't...In fact, I KNOW I didn't...
These are non-Americans that have never been on American soil in their life, yet 5 people on a court believe they have the same rights as your average Joe...

Ok...
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Old 06-26-2008, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Court rejects death penalty for raping children

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These are non-Americans that have never been on American soil in their life, yet 5 people on a court believe they have the same rights as your average Joe...

Ok...
Yup...I said they shouldn't have the SAME rights...

Did I say that "only Americans have rights" as you claimed I said in your post?...

Nope...

Did I say that "these people are not American (so) they have no rights" as you insinuated?...

Nope...

All I said was that they shouldn't have the SAME rights...

If you disagree with that, then you are basically saying the US Constitution covers every single person in the world in the same manner...
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