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News & Current Events Discuss Liberals in texas? at the General Forum; Some of these west texans are talking like liberals when it comes to fracking. A rude awakening into raw capitalism. ...

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Old 08-18-2013, 07:28 AM
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Default Liberals in texas?

Some of these west texans are talking like liberals when it comes to fracking. A rude awakening into raw capitalism. Imagine if the rand pauls and other whackos get their way and deregulation really catches on.


Texan drought sets residents against fracking - video | Environment | theguardian.com
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Old 08-18-2013, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by larryr View Post
Some of these west texans are talking like liberals when it comes to fracking. A rude awakening into raw capitalism. Imagine if the rand pauls and other whackos get their way and deregulation really catches on.


Texan drought sets residents against fracking - video | Environment | theguardian.com
I think that you severely misunderstand West Texas politics if you think these farmers and ranchers are seriously talking like "liberals". I understand, to the untrained ear, that this might sound like a "liberal" vs. "conservative" thing. Little man against the big bad oil industry. Other nonsense such as that.

However, you would be mistaken if this was really about "conservation" or "environmentalism" or even "corporatism". What you're seeing is the latest battle in the nearly 100 year fight between the ranchers/farmers and the oil industry. One big business vs. another.

The ranchers are mad because they, or someone who owned the land previous to them, made a bad business decision out of greed. The land, prior to the discovery of natural resources such as coal, oil, natural gas, uranium, etc. was owned as a complete unit. From the stars to the center of the earth, the property owner owned it all. However, with the discovery and exploitation of natural resources, land owners saw a way of selling off their mineral rights. When they started selling off their mineral rights, they severed that from the stars to the center sort of ownership and basically you have something like from the stars to 10 feet below the surface. You sold off the rest.

When the ranchers and farmers sold off the mineral interests, they created a situation where the mineral owners had a RIGHT to access their property. That means that they can enter the surface estate (the land used by the rancher for grazing or the farmer for growing crops) to drill. When they enter the surface estate, they can use the resources that are naturally part of the mineral estate to extract the minerals. This includes the water.

If they don't want the oil companies to use the water, they need to buy the mineral estate. Otherwise, they don't own the resource and don't have a right to dictate its use.

Additionally, the hands of the ranchers and farmers aren't clean in this situation either as far as water exploitation is concerned. Left to it's natural state, there is VERY LITTE free flowing surface water in West Texas. While most of West Texas sits on the Ogallala Aquifer, the oil industry hasn't been using the water until recently. This means that the vast majority of the depletion of the aquifer has been due to the development of cities and the explosion of farming/ranching.

In other words, you cannot blame the oil industry for the slap happy method in which the farmers and ranchers have misused and abused the resource.

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Old 08-18-2013, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Liberals in texas?

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
I think that you severely misunderstand West Texas politics if you think these farmers and ranchers are seriously talking like "liberals". I understand, to the untrained ear, that this might sound like a "liberal" vs. "conservative" thing. Little man against the big bad oil industry. Other nonsense such as that.

However, you would be mistaken if this was really about "conservation" or "environmentalism" or even "corporatism". What you're seeing is the latest battle in the nearly 100 year fight between the ranchers/farmers and the oil industry. One big business vs. another.

The ranchers are mad because they, or someone who owned the land previous to them, made a bad business decision out of greed. The land, prior to the discovery of natural resources such as coal, oil, natural gas, uranium, etc. was owned as a complete unit. From the stars to the center of the earth, the property owner owned it all. However, with the discovery and exploitation of natural resources, land owners saw a way of selling off their mineral rights. When they started selling off their mineral rights, they severed that from the stars to the center sort of ownership and basically you have something like from the stars to 10 feet below the surface. You sold off the rest.

When the ranchers and farmers sold off the mineral interests, they created a situation where the mineral owners had a RIGHT to access their property. That means that they can enter the surface estate (the land used by the rancher for grazing or the farmer for growing crops) to drill. When they enter the surface estate, they can use the resources that are naturally part of the mineral estate to extract the minerals. This includes the water.

If they don't want the oil companies to use the water, they need to buy the mineral estate. Otherwise, they don't own the resource and don't have a right to dictate its use.

Additionally, the hands of the ranchers and farmers aren't clean in this situation either as far as water exploitation is concerned. Left to it's natural state, there is VERY LITTE free flowing surface water in West Texas. While most of West Texas sits on the Ogallala Aquifer, the oil industry hasn't been using the water until recently. This means that the vast majority of the depletion of the aquifer has been due to the development of cities and the explosion of farming/ranching.

In other words, you cannot blame the oil industry for the slap happy method in which the farmers and ranchers have misused and abused the resource.

Whoa!...

VERY informative...
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:49 AM
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Whoa!...

VERY informative...
It's ugly all the way around. We need to reevaluate how we handle water because the current method isn't working. But damned if I'm going to let these ranchers and farmers spread the poor pitiful me story and trick the ignorant lefties into believing they are on their side.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:49 PM
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Default Re: Liberals in texas?

I didn't make that crazy deal. I do own the resources from the stars to the center of the earth on my property.
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Old 08-18-2013, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Liberals in texas?

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Whoa!...

VERY informative...
A very hearty second. Thanks dabateman.
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