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News & Current Events Discuss Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow at the General Forum; Originally Posted by cnredd You're making his point... If what Bin Laden preaches was TRULY an offront to REAL Islam, ...

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Old 05-16-2008, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
You're making his point...

If what Bin Laden preaches was TRULY an offront to REAL Islam, then the leaders of REAL Islam would be as vocal (if not moreso IMO) because of how offended they'd be at Bin Laden for perverting their religion...

But they're NOT...
Exactly. I respect Islam and its believers but I find it very disengenuous that mainstream Islam has done virtually nothing to point out that Bin Laden and his practices are not representative of true Islam.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow

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Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
Exactly. I respect Islam and its believers but I find it very disengenuous that mainstream Islam has done virtually nothing to point out that Bin Laden and his practices are not representative of true Islam.
Here is a little reading. Did you ever think to use the internets and the googles? I'll bet I could find this stuff all day. I hope you feel relieved.

V Muslim Americans Condemn Attack
9/11/2001 - Political Social Religious - Article Ref: AM0109-335
Number of comments: 27
By: American Muslim Leaders
American Muslim Leaders* -

In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful
Dr. Yahia Abdur-Rahman, from the Islamic Shurah Council of Southern California (ISCSC), offers Supplication For The Victims
Dr. Maher Hathout, from the the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) and The Islamic Center of Southern California (ICSC), condemns the attack and issues a statement. Click here to listen

Dr. Ahmad Sakr, from the Islamic Education Center (IEC), offers his condolences to the families of the victims and condemns the attack. Click here to listen

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), condemns the attack. Click here to listen
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Here is a little reading. Did you ever think to use the internets and the googles? I'll bet I could find this stuff all day. I hope you feel relieved.

V Muslim Americans Condemn Attack
9/11/2001 - Political Social Religious - Article Ref: AM0109-335
Number of comments: 27
By: American Muslim Leaders
American Muslim Leaders* -

In the Name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful
Dr. Yahia Abdur-Rahman, from the Islamic Shurah Council of Southern California (ISCSC), offers Supplication For The Victims
Dr. Maher Hathout, from the the Muslim Public Affairs Council (MPAC) and The Islamic Center of Southern California (ICSC), condemns the attack and issues a statement. Click here to listen

Dr. Ahmad Sakr, from the Islamic Education Center (IEC), offers his condolences to the families of the victims and condemns the attack. Click here to listen

Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), condemns the attack. Click here to listen
Thank you. How about a source link?

What's interesting is that this condemnation is on 09-11 and there has been virtually nothing similar since.
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Here is a little reading. Did you ever think to use the internets and the googles? I'll bet I could find this stuff all day. I hope you feel relieved.
Once again, you're MAKING HIS POINT...

When Bin Laden says something, everyone knows the next day...

When a leader in Islam says something that refutes what Bin Laden says, you have to GO FIND IT...

That's very revealing...It shows the leaders of Islam are terribly poor at getting their word out...

Either that, or as Bourne suggests (and I unfortunately agree), the leaders of Islam aren't that motivated to get their word out in the first place because the amount of offense they have towards Bin Laden for what he says isn't that high...
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow

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Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
Thank you. How about a source link?

What's interesting is that this condemnation is on 09-11 and there has been virtually nothing similar since.
Do what I did. Google. I wrote. Muslims condemn 9-11.

IslamiCity.com - Muslim Americans Condemn Attack
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Old 05-16-2008, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Once again, you're MAKING HIS POINT...

When Bin Laden says something, everyone knows the next day...

When a leader in Islam says something that refutes what Bin Laden says, you have to GO FIND IT...

That's very revealing...It shows the leaders of Islam are terribly poor at getting their word out...

Either that, or as Bourne suggests (and I unfortunately agree), the leaders of Islam aren't that motivated to get their word out in the first place because the amount of offense they have towards Bin Laden for what he says isn't that high...
Redd I think oits a difference in religions. Muslims are supposed to be modest. No idols. And so on. Its not a hiarchy religion as much as christian religions. And like I said its not really a TV religion.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:16 PM
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Default Re: Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow

First off, the audio tape may not even be Bin Laden, and that info comes directly from Al Jazeera. I find it VERY irresponsible of Reuters to publish the story without informing reader that it has not been verified. It could very well be islamofacist propaganda in a desperate attempt to keep Jihad active, using a voice similiar to OBL's voice in order to recruit new Jihadist. The US is making progress in Iraq even though routing out these extremeist will take some time. Remember, they have been at it much longer than the US has been around.
"The authenticity of the tape could not immediately be verified but the voice sounds like Bin Laden's."
Al Jazeera English - News - New Bin Laden Tape Warns Israel
I like to have some verification before assuming it is his voice on the tape. But let's assume that it is in fact Osama Bin Laden. Then I would agree with the earlier comment. "Where are all the Muslim leaders condemning OBL and his actions?" The last time I remember ANY Muslims speaking up against Jihad or ANY Islamic terrorist campaigns was last year, and it was comprised of Muslim professionals. And those comments were more of a "It wasn't us" sort of deal. I yet to hear a Muslim cleric or leader speak up without reservation.
UK Muslims condemn attacks
British Muslim communities have taken out newspaper advertisements condemning the recent attempted bomb attacks in London and at Glasgow airport in Scotland.
The "Muslims United" advertisement is being placed in the UK's Guardian and Metro newspapers.



It rejects any attempts to link criminal attacks to the teachings of Islam, and calls for society to remain united.
The advertisement is supported by all mainstream Muslim organisations in the UK and individuals from a wide range of professions, organisers said.
Ihtisham Hibatullah, spokesman for the British Muslim Initiative, which is helping organise the campaign, said doctors made up the bulk of those who had joined the campaign.
"The overwhelming response has come from the medical profession," he said, highlighting the fact that seven of the people detained over the recent failed attacks were from the medical profession.
"People in the profession want to be heard saying 'not in their name'."
Al Jazeera English - News - Uk Muslims Condemn Attacks
It is safe to say that if the leaders of the Muslim community worldwide want to help dispell the biases that exist against Muslims as a whole, then they should step up to the plate. They need to ignore the threat of retaliation within their own community and speak up against the suicide bombings and hatred against Israel and the West, as well as their own. Let's not forget that the insurgents in Iraq are killing their own people, all in the name of Jihad.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow

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Originally Posted by AmericanDreamer View Post
First off, the audio tape may not even be Bin Laden, and that info comes directly from Al Jazeera. I find it VERY irresponsible of Reuters to publish the story without informing reader that it has not been verified. It could very well be islamofacist propaganda in a desperate attempt to keep Jihad active, using a voice similiar to OBL's voice in order to recruit new Jihadist. The US is making progress in Iraq even though routing out these extremeist will take some time. Remember, they have been at it much longer than the US has been around.
"The authenticity of the tape could not immediately be verified but the voice sounds like Bin Laden's."
Al Jazeera English - News - New Bin Laden Tape Warns Israel
I like to have some verification before assuming it is his voice on the tape. But let's assume that it is in fact Osama Bin Laden. Then I would agree with the earlier comment. "Where are all the Muslim leaders condemning OBL and his actions?" The last time I remember ANY Muslims speaking up against Jihad or ANY Islamic terrorist campaigns was last year, and it was comprised of Muslim professionals. And those comments were more of a "It wasn't us" sort of deal. I yet to hear a Muslim cleric or leader speak up without reservation.
UK Muslims condemn attacks
British Muslim communities have taken out newspaper advertisements condemning the recent attempted bomb attacks in London and at Glasgow airport in Scotland.
The "Muslims United" advertisement is being placed in the UK's Guardian and Metro newspapers.



It rejects any attempts to link criminal attacks to the teachings of Islam, and calls for society to remain united.
The advertisement is supported by all mainstream Muslim organisations in the UK and individuals from a wide range of professions, organisers said.
Ihtisham Hibatullah, spokesman for the British Muslim Initiative, which is helping organise the campaign, said doctors made up the bulk of those who had joined the campaign.
"The overwhelming response has come from the medical profession," he said, highlighting the fact that seven of the people detained over the recent failed attacks were from the medical profession.
"People in the profession want to be heard saying 'not in their name'."
Al Jazeera English - News - Uk Muslims Condemn Attacks
It is safe to say that if the leaders of the Muslim community worldwide want to help dispell the biases that exist against Muslims as a whole, then they should step up to the plate. They need to ignore the threat of retaliation within their own community and speak up against the suicide bombings and hatred against Israel and the West, as well as their own. Let's not forget that the insurgents in Iraq are killing their own people, all in the name of Jihad.
We are getting far afield. Islam is now the largest religion. Why doesn't the U.S. condemn Egypt. Or why not appoligize to the Iranians for the Shah. This stuff can go on and on. Muslins died on 9-11 too. I'll bet you don't remember the buddists condemn 9-11 did you?
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:40 PM
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Default Re: Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow

What is missed in this conversation is the fact a average Muslim can't question his/her religion or those in it. (If the latter is correct) they have cleric and mu-las and so forth to tell them what is proper and what isn't.

I think Waco was the idea behind the OK., bombing. And every American had his/her opinion and expressed them. McVeigh acted on his. And sadly it cost lives of children and other innocences.

But again American had opinions and spoke out. Our many different religions allow that.

And if OBL was of any of our western world religions many would have said plenty about him and his growing army of killers.
We do have a group in America that speaks for the many Muslims in America. And they to don't speak so loud against OBL. I fact the last time we hear from them was when the asked about 305 members about their feelings on American and we found that 204 were saying that America was attacking their religion. Please correct me if I am wrong. And all of the Muslims taking the survey were already American's yet they held their faith before the oath they took to become American's, just like in the old lands they came from.

I think what Bourne and I know myself care about is that Islam is the faith and also the government. Yet in America we have separation of the two.

So by not taking a stance loud and clear the peaceful if this ever gets really big will have no choice but to follow the demands of the ever increasing militant leaders of the religion.
We had a video posted the other day about Islam wants to take control of the world, that the start of this has already take ground in 4 countries.

I know Bourne and respect him. And I also know he has a lot of knowledge (thats not to say Mikeyy or any others don't) But he is viewing the larger picture I believe and not just this thread.
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Old 05-16-2008, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Bin Laden marks Israel anniversary with combat vow

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Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
What is missed in this conversation is the fact a average Muslim can't question his/her religion or those in it. (If the latter is correct) they have cleric and mu-las and so forth to tell them what is proper and what isn't.

I think Waco was the idea behind the OK., bombing. And every American had his/her opinion and expressed them. McVeigh acted on his. And sadly it cost lives of children and other innocences.

But again American had opinions and spoke out. Our many different religions allow that.

And if OBL was of any of our western world religions many would have said plenty about him and his growing army of killers.
We do have a group in America that speaks for the many Muslims in America. And they to don't speak so loud against OBL. I fact the last time we hear from them was when the asked about 305 members about their feelings on American and we found that 204 were saying that America was attacking their religion. Please correct me if I am wrong. And all of the Muslims taking the survey were already American's yet they held their faith before the oath they took to become American's, just like in the old lands they came from.

I think what Bourne and I know myself care about is that Islam is the faith and also the government. Yet in America we have separation of the two.

So by not taking a stance loud and clear the peaceful if this ever gets really big will have no choice but to follow the demands of the ever increasing militant leaders of the religion.
We had a video posted the other day about Islam wants to take control of the world, that the start of this has already take ground in 4 countries.

I know Bourne and respect him. And I also know he has a lot of knowledge (thats not to say Mikeyy or any others don't) But he is viewing the larger picture I believe and not just this thread.
I don't mind the debate. Its just a little off topic. Maybe Bourne should start a thread with his concerns. I am willing to discuss this. And I know Bourne. He proves that imtelligent people can be wrong.

Just a tease
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