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News & Current Events Discuss Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US Soil at the General Forum; Originally Posted by cnredd Party above country to to the extreme...Principles and liberties?...F**k 'em... Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against ...

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Old 03-07-2013, 04:59 AM
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Default Re: Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US So

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Party above country to to the extreme...Principles and liberties?...F**k 'em...

Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US Soil

Notice how the Dems didn't even LET it get the floor for a vote...A Democrat voting AGAINST the president???...Disastrous!...
Rand Paul is running for congress...
...perpetually. Kinda like the rest of the teapot crapheads. I am so glad I changed parties so I don't have to apologize for these poop heads time/money wasting adventures in vote mongering.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:38 AM
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Default Re: Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US So

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Rand Paul is running for congress...
...perpetually.
he's only ran for Congress once in his lifetime...

So, "no"...
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:40 AM
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Default Re: Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US So

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he's only ran for Congress once in his lifetime...

So, "no"...
He is running NOW. is my point. This is part of his ad campaign.
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US So

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
He is running NOW. is my point. This is part of his ad campaign.
Oh, I'm sure that's PART of it...

But I don't see how pointing that out means anything...Would this be different from EVERY other politician?...
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Old 03-07-2013, 06:21 AM
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Default Re: Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US So

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Oh, I'm sure that's PART of it...

But I don't see how pointing that out means anything...Would this be different from EVERY other politician?...
exactly
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:12 AM
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Default Re: Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US So

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Originally Posted by Jackass master View Post
It is a tool for spying and killing people. Got a few thousand already now didn't they?
It is an airplane with a camera and weapons. So is every military jet you see. Every police chopper you see. If there was ever a reason to use them on our soil they would. It would be a very rare event indeed just as was stated in the response.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US So

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
he's only ran for Congress once in his lifetime...

So, "no"...
So did all of them the first time.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US So

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
I've made my position clear multiple times before...

I am FOR drone strikes and AGREE with Obama that they should be an option available on the table...

However, I VEHEMENTLY DISAGREE that this option can be made unilaterally with NO OVERSIGHT from either the legislative or judicial branches...


However, that is NOT the issue of this thread...This issue is the fact that Dems KNOW that there are others on their side of the aisle that agree with me, but putting it down in actual vote would show dissent against the Super Baby, so they simply blocked the vote from even coming to pass...Pure party protectionism...

It's tough for the media and Democrats (redundancy alert) to create the "Look at all of those Republicans at each others' throat!!!!" narrative when this vote would've shown the exact same thing on the Democrat side...
It is not at all difficult for the media to portray Republicans in a state of civil war and Democrats solidly united with President Obama. It is done by selective emphasis and blaming Congress for the intransigence of Senate Democrats. Senator Paul's filibuster is characterized as a radical Republican Tea Partier depriving our President of the advisor he needs to run the Federal government while the Democrats suppressing Senate debate on drone policy is downplayed or ignored. Sequestration cuts are blamed on Congressional inaction rather than the fact the Senate Democrats have blocked consideration of a Federal budget for more than 3 years. But our media except for FNC is impartial.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:57 AM
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Default Re: Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US So

Rand Paul may be grandstanding but the issue he raises and the what he's proposed is something that effects everyone. and congress is cutting their own throats and ours by giving the prez the leeway he's assumed.

Credd and others keep saying the prez should have "oversite" to kill anyone they want.
thats pure BS. There's No power in the constituion to grant the prez the power to do it And there's no power in constitution for the courts or congress to tell him HOW he can do it.

there's no star chamber power in the Constitution. The Bill of right was set up to PREVENT the very Idea of unilateral power of the prez or Congress or the courts to put any man, let alone an American, to death by ANY 'means without due process. OR to put them in jail without due process. period. Much less the broad sweeping idea of "potential threat" or "associate forces" or "material support" and the ever broadening definition of terrorism.

it's despotic powers.

As far as Posse Comitatus goes Bush and congress Gutted it during his term folks.
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But as I said Bush and congress have already gutted the Posse Comitatus a few years ago.
...2006: On the Eve of the Midterm Elections, PCA Nullified

Recently, Congress passed a controversial bill which grants the President the right to commandeer Federal or even state National Guard Troops and use them inside the United States. This bill, entitled the John Warner Defense Appropriation Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (H.R. 5122.ENR), contains a provision, (Section 1076) which allows the President to:
“...employ the armed forces, including the National Guard in Federal service, to...

restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition in any State or possession of the United States..., where the President determines that,...domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order;
suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy...” [3]


Senator Patrick Leahy and others have condemned Section 1076 because it effectively nullifies the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act (10 U.S.C. 331-335) and gives the President the legal ability to define under what conditions martial law may be declared. [4]
H.R.5122 was signed into law by President Bush on October 17, 2006, and will take effect October 1, 2007 (unless an earlier effective date is established by regulation). "On the same day, Bush signed the Military Commissions Act of 2006, which abolishes the legal protection of habeas corpus, authorizes the president to detain and jail anyone (even US citizens) without charge and subject them to harsh interrogation that may or may not involve torture." [5]...
#2 Bush Moves Toward Martial Law - Project Censored | Project Censored
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Democrats Block Rand Paul Resolution Against Drone Killings of Americans on US So

more on posse commitaus
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northcom news interview
In a barely noticed development, a US Army unit is now training for domestic operations under the control of US Army North, the Army service component of Northern Command. An initial news report in the Army Times newspaper last month noted that in addition to emergency response the force ďmay be called upon to help with civil unrest and crowd control.Ē The military has since claimed the force will not be used for civil unrest, but questions remain. We speak to Army Col. Michael Boatner, future operations division chief of USNORTHCOM, and Matthew Rothschild, editor of The Progressive magazine. [includes rush transcript]

Guests:
Col. Michael Boatner, Future Operations division chief of USNORTHCOM.

Matthew Rothschild, Editor of The Progressive magazine.




Tuesday, October 7, 2008


reporter MATTHEW ROTHSCHILD:

Well, Iím very concerned on a number of fronts about this, Amy. One, that NORTHCOM, the Northern Command, that came into being in October of 2002, when that came in, people like me were concerned that the Pentagon was going to use its forces here in the United States, and now it looks like, in fact, it is, even though on its website it says it doesnít have units of its own. Now itís getting a unit of its own.

And Colonel Boatner talked about this unit, what itís trained for. Well, letís look at what itís trained for. This is the 3rd Infantry, 1st Brigade Combat unit that has spent three of the last five years in Iraq in counterinsurgency. Itís a war-fighting unit, was one of the first units to Baghdad. It was involved in the battle of Fallujah. And, you know, thatís what theyíve been trained to do. And now theyíre bringing that training here?

On top of that, one of the commanders of this unit was boasting in the Army Times about this new package of non-lethal weapons that has been designed, and this unit itself is going be able to use, according to that original article. And in fact, the commander was saying he had even tasered himself and was boasting about tasering himself. So, why is a Pentagon unit thatís going to be possibly patrolling the streets of the United States involved in using tasers?

AMY GOODMAN: Colonel Boatner?

COL. MICHAEL BOATNER: Well, Iíd like to address that. That involved a service mission and a service set of equipment that was issued for overseas deployment. Those soldiers do not have that on their equipment list for deploying in the homeland. And again, they have been involved in situations overseas. And having talked to commanders who have returned, those situations are largely nonviolent, non-kinetic. And when they do escalate, the soldiers have a lot of experience with seeing the indicators and understanding it. So, I would say that our soldiers are trustworthy. They can deploy in the homeland, and American citizens can be confident that there will be no abuses.

Reporter MATTHEW ROTHSCHILD:

Well, you know, that doesnít really satisfy me, and I donít think it should satisfy your listeners and your audience, Amy, because, you know, our people in the field in Iraq, some of them have not behaved up to the highest standards, and a lot of police forces in the United States who have been using these tasers have used them inappropriately.

The whole question here about what the Pentagon is doing patrolling in the United States gets to the real heart of the matter, which is, do we have a democracy here? I mean, there is a law on the books called the Posse Comitatus Act and the Insurrection Act that says that the president of the United States, as commander-in-chief, cannot put the military on our streets. And this is a violation of that, it seems to me.

President Bush tried to get around this act a couple years ago in the Defense Authorization Act that he signed that got rid of some of those restrictions, and then last year, in the new Defense Authorization Act, thanks to the work of Senator Patrick Leahy and Kit Bond of Missouri, that was stripped away. And so, the President isnít supposed to be using the military in this fashion, and though the President, true to form, appended a signing statement to that saying heís not going to be governed by that.
So, here we have a situation where the President of United States has been aggrandizing his power, and this gives him a whole brigade unit to use against US citizens here at home.

AMY GOODMAN:
Colonel Michael Boatner, what about the Posse Comitatus Act, and where does that fit in when US troops are deployed on US soil?
COL. MICHAEL BOATNER:
It absolutely governs in every instance. We are not allowed to help enforce the law. We donít do that. Every time we get a request ó and again, this kind of a deployment is defense support to civil authority under the National Response Framework and the Stafford Act. And we do it all the time, in response to hurricanes, floods, fires and things like that. But again, you know, if we review the requirement that comes to us from civil authority and it has any complexion of law enforcement whatsoever, it gets rejected and pushed back, because itís not lawful.
AMY GOODMAN:
Matthew Rothschild, does this satisfy you, editor of The Progressive magazine?
MATTHEW ROTHSCHILD:
No, it doesnít. One of the reasons it doesnít is not by what Boatner was saying right there, but what President Bush has been doing. And if we looked at National Security Presidential Directive 51, that he signed on May 9th of 2007, Amy, this gives the President enormous powers to declare a catastrophic emergency and to bypass our regular system of laws, essentially, to impose a form of martial law.

And if you look at that National Security Presidential Directive, what it says, that in any incident where there is extraordinary disruption of a whole range of things, including our economy, the President can declare a catastrophic emergency. Well, weíre having these huge disturbances in our economy. President Bush could today pick up that National Security Directive 51 and say, ďWeíre in a catastrophic emergency. Iím going to declare martial law, and Iím going to use this combat brigade to enforce it.Ē

COL. MICHAEL BOATNER:
The only exception that I know of is the Insurrection Act. Itís something that is very unlikely to be invoked. In my thirty-year career, itís only been used once, in the LA riots, and it was a widespread situation of lawlessness and violence. And the governor of the state requested that the President provide support. And thatís a completely different situation. The forces available to do that are in every service in every part of the country, and itís completely unrelated to the ó this consequence management force that weíre talking about....


Is Posse Comitatus Dead? US Troops on US Streets | Democracy Now!
Obama's no better, he rather kill than use tasers it seems.
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For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
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