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News & Current Events Discuss US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Leanworks ... ... I would expect that if I did not have a nation and were offered ...

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Old 12-02-2012, 06:10 AM
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Default Re: US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements

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Originally Posted by Leanworks View Post
...
...


I would expect that if I did not have a nation and were offered that opportunity to have one for the first time in history I would abide by the simple rule to live in peace rather than
...
Since the Palestinians did not, and still attempt to run away from the reality of UN Resolution 181 and eradicate Israel in total that they certainly have no desire to ever live in peace with those who do.
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Originally Posted by Pretty Flamingo View Post
Well-said. Thank you and a warm welcome to you.
The Myth of the Generous Offer
Quote:
To understand what actually happened at Camp David, it's necessary to know that for many years the PLO has officially called for a two-state solution in which Israel would keep the 78 percent of the Palestine Mandate (as Britain's protectorate was called) that it has controlled since 1948, and a Palestinian state would be formed on the remaining 22 percent that Israel has occupied since the 1967 war (the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem). Israel would withdraw completely from those lands, return to the pre-1967 borders and a resolution to the problem of the Palestinian refugees who were forced to flee their homes in 1948 would be negotiated between the two sides. Then, in exchange, the Palestinians would agree to recognize Israel (PLO Declaration, 12/7/88; PLO Negotiations Department).

Although some people describe Israel's Camp David proposal as practically a return to the 1967 borders, it was far from that. Under the plan, Israel would have withdrawn completely from the small Gaza Strip. But it would annex strategically important and highly valuable sections of the West Bank--while retaining "security control" over other parts--that would have made it impossible for the Palestinians to travel or trade freely within their own state without the permission of the Israeli government (Political Science Quarterly, 6/22/01; New York Times, 7/26/01; Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 9-10/00; Robert Malley, New York Review of Books, 8/9/01).
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The annexations and security arrangements would divide the West Bank into three disconnected cantons. In exchange for taking fertile West Bank lands that happen to contain most of the region's scarce water aquifers, Israel offered to give up a piece of its own territory in the Negev Desert--about one-tenth the size of the land it would annex--including a former toxic waste dump.
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Because of the geographic placement of Israel’s proposed West Bank annexations, Palestinians living in their new "independent state" would be forced to cross Israeli territory every time they traveled or shipped goods from one section of the West Bank to another, and Israel could close those routes at will. Israel would also retain a network of so-called "bypass roads" that would crisscross the Palestinian state while remaining sovereign Israeli territory, further dividing the West Bank.
Quote:
Israel was also to have kept "security control" for an indefinite period of time over the Jordan Valley, the strip of territory that forms the border between the West Bank and neighboring Jordan. Palestine would not have free access to its own international borders with Jordan and Egypt--putting Palestinian trade, and therefore its economy, at the mercy of the Israeli military.
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Had Arafat agreed to these arrangements, the Palestinians would have permanently locked in place many of the worst aspects of the very occupation they were trying to bring to an end. For at Camp David, Israel also demanded that Arafat sign an "end-of-conflict" agreement stating that the decades-old war between Israel and the Palestinians was over and waiving all further claims against Israel.
Quote:
The Camp David meeting ended without agreement on July 25, 2000. At this point, according to conventional wisdom, the Palestinian leader's "response to the Camp David proposals was not a counteroffer but an assault" (Oregonian editorial, 8/15/01). "Arafat figured he could push one more time to get one more batch of concessions. The talks collapsed. Violence erupted again" (E.J. Dionne, Washington Post, 12/4/01). He "used the uprising to obtain through violence...what he couldn't get at the Camp David bargaining table" (Chicago Sun-Times, 12/21/00).
Quote:
But the Intifada actually did not start for another two months. In the meantime, there was relative calm in the occupied territories. During this period of quiet, the two sides continued negotiating behind closed doors. Meanwhile, life for the Palestinian population under Israeli occupation went on as usual. On July 28, Prime Minister Barak announced that Israel had no plans to withdraw from the town of Abu Dis, as it had pledged to do in the 1995 Oslo II agreement (Israel Wire, 7/28/00). In August and early September, Israel announced new construction on Jewish-only settlements in Efrat and Har Adar, while the Israeli statistics bureau reported that settlement building had increased 81 percent in the first quarter of 2000. Two Palestinian houses were demolished in East Jerusalem, and Arab residents of Sur Bahir and Suwahara received expropriation notices; their houses lay in the path of a planned Jewish-only highway (Report on Israeli Settlement in the Occupied Territories, 11-12/00).
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The Intifada began on September 29, 2000, when Israeli troops opened fire on unarmed Palestinian rock-throwers at the Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem, killing four and wounding over 200 (State Department human rights report for Israel, 2/01). Demonstrations spread throughout the territories. Barak and Arafat, having both staked their domestic reputations on their ability to win a negotiated peace from the other side, now felt politically threatened by the violence. In January 2001, they resumed formal negotiations at Taba, Egypt.
you can read more but you get the picture.
The Myth of the Generous Offer ? FAIR: Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
The Myth of the Generous Offer



you can read more but you get the picture.
The Myth of the Generous Offer ? FAIR: Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:43 AM
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Default Re: US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements

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Yeah, Bill hoped to make history by selling the Palistinians a pile of crap. So he was upset. I don't care. I know the facts.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements

A word about those "unarmed Palestinian rock-throwers" mentioned in the quote in post #31 - excuse me, but that's like saying a loaded and cocked BB gun is safe to point at your eye.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:18 PM
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Default Re: US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements

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A word about those "unarmed Palestinian rock-throwers" mentioned in the quote in post #31 - excuse me, but that's like saying a loaded and cocked BB gun is safe to point at your eye.
Absolutely.

Have a look at this picture:





Tragic victims of a rock attack:
Deaths of Asher and Yonatan Palmer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 12-02-2012, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements

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Absolutely.

Have a look at this picture:





Tragic victims of a rock attack:
Deaths of Asher and Yonatan Palmer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We can all post tragidies all day from both sides. It just makes my point that the status quo is no solution.
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Old 12-02-2012, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
The Myth of the Generous Offer
you can read more but you get the picture.
The Myth of the Generous Offer ? FAIR: Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting
Thank you but if you recall, I stated;

""I would expect that if I did not have a nation and were offered that opportunity to have one for the first time in history I would abide by the simple rule to live in peace rather than
...
Since the Palestinians did not, and still attempt to run away from the reality of UN Resolution 181 and eradicate Israel in total that they certainly have no desire to ever live in peace with those who do.""

You did not address any of the above as history shows, from 1947, day one of this issue with the mutually beneficial agreement to have, for the first time, a nation called 'Palestine' with the only caveat being live with the modern nation of Judea known as Israel. They turned UN Res 181 down and the Palestinians and their former allies, were like Hamas is today in it's Charter, their mission at the core is the complete destruction of Israel and subsequent destruction of all it's people. Fatah on the other hand have unofficially said they recognize Israel and it's right to exist but have not taken the statement off their mission statement.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:04 PM
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Default Re: US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements

Considering all that they have endured at the hands of the terrorists Hamas the Israelis have been very patient. Despite rocket attacks that kill civilians the Israelis have kept the water and electricity going to Gaza. If the (so called) Palestinians wanted peace they could have it. All they would need to do is quit killing people.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements

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Considering all that they have endured at the hands of the terrorists Hamas the Israelis have been very patient. Despite rocket attacks that kill civilians the Israelis have kept the water and electricity going to Gaza. If the (so called) Palestinians wanted peace they could have it. All they would need to do is quit killing people.
That doesn't work when your slogan is that you love death more than the Jews love life..
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: US slams Israel's decision to expand settlements

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Originally Posted by Pretty Flamingo View Post
The so-called palestinians were offered their own land and they refused it. Then they could be thriving but have decided to wage war since. They are fine under Israeli rule. Why do you keep forgetting everything you are told Mikeyy? Is there nothing on tv today?
No, they are not.

How many new Palestinian settlements have gone up?
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