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dabateman 11-16-2012 04:07 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 497367)
Yes, it should be.

No. There is zero rational reasoning behind permitting it.

Quote:

LMFAO Yes of course, because nothing EVER gets done without the government making it happen! :rolls
Not what I said. However government does FORCE it to happen faster.

Quote:

Gimme a ****ing break. Like I said, I don't know wtf you're talking about and neither do you. Contrary to what you believe, individuals do actually make things without the government forcing them to. And, they do create their own safety guidelines and rules sans the government (see scuba diving, whitewater, and prostitution for that matter)
However, as previously indicated, the government forcing the use of these developments reduces long term costs AND leads to further development of safety precautions.

rivrrat 11-16-2012 04:08 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dabateman (Post 497379)
He does... that often transforms into shingles. ;)

Yes, I know it can cause shingles. But that's shingles, not chicken pox.

Just like syphilis can be and is curable. You do not have it any longer. You have no symptoms, you are not a carrier, and it will not just reoccur without a completely separate infection. It is CURED.

dabateman 11-16-2012 04:10 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 497381)
Yes, I know it can cause shingles. But that's shingles, not chicken pox.

That's like trying to draw an infection distinction between HIV and AIDS. Good luck with that. :rolls

Quote:

Just like syphilis can be and is curable. You do not have it any longer. You have no symptoms, you are not a carrier, and it will not just reoccur without a completely separate infection. It is CURED.
You still have it. You are a carrier. It's in your blood. Just because you are asymptomatic does not mean you are cured.

rivrrat 11-16-2012 04:11 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dabateman (Post 497380)
No. There is zero rational reasoning behind permitting it.

Aside from individual freedom, choice and responsibility.

Quote:

Not what I said. However government does FORCE it to happen faster.
In SOME instances, possibly, but not in most.


Quote:

However, as previously indicated, the government forcing the use of these developments reduces long term costs AND leads to further development of safety precautions.
And, as it pertains to what I do, and have done (since YOU brought it up), the government doesn't force jack ****ing ****.

In fact, most advancements in safety are despite the government, not because of it. People don't WANT to get hurt. Companies don't WANT their employees dead and dying. No nannies needed.

rivrrat 11-16-2012 04:13 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dabateman (Post 497384)
That's like trying to draw an infection distinction between HIV and AIDS. Good luck with that. :rolls

There's a distinct difference.

However, with regard to chicken pox, the person is now immune to chicken pox and they are NOT a carrier. With regard to HIV, the person is NOT immune to other HIV strains and IS a carrier. So, our point still stands.

Quote:

You still have it. You are a carrier. It's in your blood. Just because you are asymptomatic does not mean you are cured.
No, you are not a carrier. You do not still "have it". It is cured. If you still "had it", you couldn't contract it again. Which you CAN, even after you've been treated and cured.

dabateman 11-16-2012 04:18 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 497386)
There's a distinct difference.

However, with regard to chicken pox, the person is now immune to chicken pox and they are NOT a carrier. With regard to HIV, the person is NOT immune to other HIV strains and IS a carrier. So, our point still stands.

They are indeed a carrier. Otherwise there wouldn't be a risk of shingles.

Quote:

No, you are not a carrier. You do not still "have it". It is cured. If you still "had it", you couldn't contract it again. Which you CAN, even after you've been treated and cured.
Actually your understanding is limited.

You can still be infected without it being an ACUTE infection.

No cure. The end.

dabateman 11-16-2012 04:20 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 497385)
Aside from individual freedom, choice and responsibility.

Which aren't enforced by allowing people to do stupid ****.

Quote:

In SOME instances, possibly, but not in most.
Actually yes, in most.

Quote:

And, as it pertains to what I do, and have done (since YOU brought it up), the government doesn't force jack ****ing ****.

In fact, most advancements in safety are despite the government, not because of it. People don't WANT to get hurt. Companies don't WANT their employees dead and dying. No nannies needed.
If the companies didn't want their employees dead and dying, they'd incorporate appropriate safety requirements. Hence condoms. Hence the whole freaking point of the argument.

rivrrat 11-16-2012 04:22 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dabateman (Post 497390)
They are indeed a carrier. Otherwise there wouldn't be a risk of shingles.

No, they are not a carrier. If they cannot give it to others, they are not a carrier.


Quote:

Actually your understanding is limited.
No, I understand quite well.

Quote:

You can still be infected without it being an ACUTE infection.
Indeed, someone CAN be infected and be asymptomatic. But not in the case of someone who has been CURED of a disease such as someone who has been CURED of syphilis.

Quote:

No cure. The end.
Yes, it can be cured. The end.

Your oh so precious government even states that fact.

Quote:

How is syphilis treated?
No home remedies or over-the-counter drugs will cure syphilis, but syphilis is simple to cure with appropriate antibiotics from a physician.
STD Facts - Syphilis

Idealogically Promiscuous 11-16-2012 05:08 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Chicken pox antibodies remain in the blood which is what gives immunity to future chicken pox infections.

The shingles virus is only activates as a hyper immune response by the body to what it thinks is the pox again.

You are not a carrier of chicken pox your entire life once you overcome it.


Syphilus is curable. It is bacterial and it cures with antibiotics. It does not remain in the blood. It is contractable as many times as you get exposed to it.

1069 11-16-2012 07:09 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

You still have it. You are a carrier. It's in your blood. Just because you are asymptomatic does not mean you are cured.
There are actually many viral and bacterial infections like this. Typically, antibodies to them confer immunity. Ergo "having it in your blood" is arguably a good thing.
There are some viruses that remain with you for life which cause occasional flare-ups (such as Herpes Simplex 1 & 2), but Syphilis is not one of them. Once treated, it is resolved without sequelae, regardless of whether or not antibodies to it remain in your body for life.
It is incorrect to say "you are a carrier" if by that you mean contagious. Typically that is what being a "carrier" means. Once treated, Syphilis cannot be transmitted sexually, laterally, or any other way. It is resolved.

Idealogically Promiscuous 11-16-2012 07:17 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous (Post 497411)
Chicken pox antibodies remain in the blood which is what gives immunity to future chicken pox infections.

The shingles virus is only activates as a hyper immune response by the body to what it thinks is the pox again.

I was wrong about this part. I did some more research and it is the chicken pox virus that goes dormant in nerve cells. For some reason, when it becomes active again, it only causes shingles but not pox. Shingles cannot be spread but a person with shingles can spread chicken pox. So, yes, you are a carrier for life with chicken pox.

The rest of my post was correct, however.

sky dancer 11-16-2012 07:52 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 497351)
No, I state facts as if they were facts and I state my opinions as opinions.

No, you stated something that isn't a fact, but an opinion. You stated that anyone in an intimate relationship is at risk of STD. You stated that EVERYONE who has sex with ANYONE is forever and always at risk. That is YOUR opinion, not a fact. That's not true for monogamous couples.

The STD risk is only for people who are having sex with more than one person, NOT for happily monogamous couples.

I am absolutely NOT at risk of contracting STD. My wife has never even thought of cheating on me. That's a fact.

dabateman 11-16-2012 08:43 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1069 (Post 497465)
There are actually many viral and bacterial infections like this. Typically, antibodies to them confer immunity. Ergo "having it in your blood" is arguably a good thing.
There are some viruses that remain with you for life which cause occasional flare-ups (such as Herpes Simplex 1 & 2), but Syphilis is not one of them. Once treated, it is resolved without sequelae, regardless of whether or not antibodies to it remain in your body for life.
It is incorrect to say "you are a carrier" if by that you mean contagious. Typically that is what being a "carrier" means. Once treated, Syphilis cannot be transmitted sexually, laterally, or any other way. It is resolved.

I didn't say contagious. If I had meant contagious that's what I would have said. However you carry it in your blood. It's like a biological scarlet letter.

rivrrat 11-16-2012 09:20 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sky dancer (Post 497475)
No, you stated something that isn't a fact, but an opinion. You stated that anyone in an intimate relationship is at risk of STD. You stated that EVERYONE who has sex with ANYONE is forever and always at risk. That is YOUR opinion, not a fact.

No, it's a fact.

rivrrat 11-16-2012 09:23 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dabateman (Post 497493)
I didn't say contagious. If I had meant contagious that's what I would have said. However you carry it in your blood. It's like a biological scarlet letter.

Carrier means contagious.

However you don't "carry it in your blood". You are cured. Unless exposed to it again, you will not ever, EVER get it again. You cannot give it to anyone. It is done. Gone. Cured. It's not just laying dormant. It is cured.

sky dancer 11-16-2012 09:29 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 497498)
No, it's a fact.

That's what I mean. It's nothing more than your opinion. Neither my wife nor I are in danger of contracting STDS.

That's a fact.

I'm more in danger of catching your insipid cynicism than STD's by dealing with your persistent negativity. That's an opinion.

1069 11-16-2012 09:30 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dabateman (Post 497493)
I didn't say contagious. If I had meant contagious that's what I would have said. However you carry it in your blood. It's like a biological scarlet letter.

Early-stage Syphilis is treated- and cured- with a single dose of penicillin.
Late-stage Syphilis is treated with a longer penicillin regimen, but is still completely curable, although the damage caused by untreated late-stage disease is irreversible. Fortunately, it's typically caught and cured early in the US.
It does not remain in your body for life; a low level of antibodies may be present and detectable for months or (in rare cases) years, after successful treatment for Syphilis. But not forever.

I actually have an interesting Syph story; my great-grandfather infected my great-grandmother (who was a prominent socialite) with it sometime during the late 1920s or early 1930s, before antibiotics. They already had three healthy children together, including my grandfather, so he apparently contracted the disease via infidelity, no doubt with prostitutes.
My great-grandmother was unaware of her infection until her fourth child was born, a son who was blind and severely retarded as a result of the Syphilis. My great-grandfather moved into a hotel and drank himself to death over the next decade.
My great-uncle Ira (the disabled child) was kept at home by my great grandmother and cared for with the help of a series of nurses, until- in his young adulthood- he was discovered by my great grandmother to be involved in some sort of sexual relationship with a live-in nurse she'd hired to care for him.
At that point, he was institutionalized, and he lived in institutions until his death the mid-1980s. I never met him; I heard the story plenty when I was growing up- it was a popular family legend- but I was under the impression that all this happened at some point in the distant past, hundreds of years ago. Only as an adult did I learn that Uncle Ira was still alive during my lifetime, and that I could've met him. Poor guy.
Anyway, that's my Syphilis story. Isn't it Southern Gothic dreadful? :p

rivrrat 11-16-2012 09:33 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sky dancer (Post 497501)
That's what I mean. It's nothing more than your opinion. Neither my wife nor I are in danger of contracting STDS.

That's a fact.

I'm more in danger of catching your insipid cynicism than STD's. That's an opinion.

Sorry dear. Trusting someone is always a risk. That is not my opinion, that is a fact. Based on the definition of the word.

sky dancer 11-16-2012 09:34 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 497503)
Sorry dear. Trusting someone is always a risk.

Trusting my wife is NOT a risk. Not a bit. You don't seem to have a clue about love like that, "dear".

rivrrat 11-16-2012 09:35 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sky dancer (Post 497505)
Trusting my wife is NOT a risk. Not a bit. You don't seem to have a clue about love like that.

The definition of the word trust means it has inherent risk. Otherwise, it's not trust.

sky dancer 11-16-2012 09:37 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 497506)
The definition of the word trust means it has inherent risk. Otherwise, it's not trust.

You don't get it. You NEVER will. You have opinions about something you know nothing about. I'm done talking to you about this. Go hang out with the people who agree with your every utterance.

rivrrat 11-16-2012 09:40 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sky dancer (Post 497507)
You don't get it. You NEVER will. You have opinions about something you know nothing about. I'm done talking to you about this.

This is not an opinion. It's knowledge about the definition of words.

sky dancer 11-16-2012 09:42 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Bye.:wave

Idealogically Promiscuous 11-17-2012 02:45 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sky dancer (Post 497509)
Bye.:wave

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/st...ency-light.jpg

That's the 5000th time this line has been used. Congratulations!!!! You're a WINNER!!!!

Idealogically Promiscuous 11-17-2012 02:50 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1069 (Post 497502)
Anyway, that's my Syphilis story. Isn't it Southern Gothic dreadful? :p

Wow. That really is kinda southern gothic. You and I could probably share some stories. I totally forget, sometimes, that Texas is as southern as North Carolina but I guess it really is. :wave

Remind me to tell you sometime about my Uncle Seth, who I never met (or even heard of) until he came to our door late one night looking for my father...when I was 15.

dabateman 11-17-2012 12:01 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 497500)
Carrier means contagious.

However you don't "carry it in your blood". You are cured. Unless exposed to it again, you will not ever, EVER get it again. You cannot give it to anyone. It is done. Gone. Cured. It's not just laying dormant. It is cured.

Cured means it no longer exists. That is inaccurate. It still exists in your blood.

rivrrat 11-17-2012 12:25 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dabateman (Post 497618)
Cured means it no longer exists. That is inaccurate. It still exists in your blood.

No, that's not what cured means. And it doesn't "exist in your blood".

1069 11-17-2012 12:44 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 497500)
Carrier means contagious.

However you don't "carry it in your blood". You are cured. Unless exposed to it again, you will not ever, EVER get it again. You cannot give it to anyone. It is done. Gone. Cured. It's not just laying dormant. It is cured.

Maybe he's thinking of HPV. Doesn't that sort of "lay dormant" forever once you've got it?

cnredd 11-17-2012 12:48 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Hmmmm...

Women can do what they want with their bodies! It's THEIR choice!!!!

Men MUST wear condoms...No choice in the matter!!!!

:rolls

1069 11-17-2012 12:54 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd (Post 497629)
Hmmmm...

Women can do what they want with their bodies! It's THEIR choice!!!!

Men MUST wear condoms...No choice in the matter!!!!

:rolls

In parts of the adult industry where it is legal to have sexual intercourse for money- ie, in porn and in the few parts of the US where prostitution is legal- I believe regulation and oversight is appropriate, and I believe laws enforcing that participants use protection is not out of line.
If it's legal, then it's a job, like any other.
There are safety regulations and state and federal oversight when it comes to occupational safety in every legal line of work. Deal with it.
I'm tired of hearing "But it's porn!"
All that means to me is that most of the workers in this field are very young, and it makes me even more determined to protect them. They may be naive (and you might find that funny, but it's not. Eighteen and nineteen year olds can be naive and impulsive, whether or not they work in adult entertainment). They may be uneducated. They have their whole lives ahead of them. Many of them do not yet have children, but will want them in the future. They deserve safety and protection.
It's legal. It's a job. Employees have a right and a responsibility to be safe on the job. The state has a right and a responsibility to minimize occupational hazards, as they do in every field.

sky dancer 11-17-2012 12:55 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cnredd (Post 497629)
Hmmmm...

Women can do what they want with their bodies! It's THEIR choice!!!!

Men MUST wear condoms...No choice in the matter!!!!

:rolls

That's right. Diseased scuzzbo in the porn industry will have to wear condoms. Women put their foots down! And LA citizens agree.

1069 11-17-2012 01:31 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Besides being young, adult film actors also have a higher rate than the general population of male bisexuality, both on and offscreen (a risk factor for STDs, including HIV) and probably- this is an educated guess- a higher rate of recreational drug use than the average group of McDonalds employees (another risk factor), if only because they have more disposable income.
They also tend to be uninsured, meaning a probably lapse in diagnosis and treatment of STDs.
All of this, combined with their youth and the fact that they have more sexual partners than the average individual who does not work in porn, makes them a highly at-risk group.

dabateman 11-17-2012 01:46 PM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 1069 (Post 497643)
Besides being young, adult film actors also have a higher rate than the general population of male bisexuality, both on and offscreen (a risk factor for STDs, including HIV) and probably- this is an educated guess- a higher rate of recreational drug use than the average group of McDonalds employees (another risk factor), if only because they have more disposable income.
They also tend to be uninsured, meaning a probably lapse in diagnosis and treatment of STDs.
All of this, combined with their youth and the fact that they have more sexual partners than the average individual who does not work in porn, makes them a highly at-risk group.

I agree with the vast majority of your assertion. I just wanted to point out a few things. First, correlation is not causation. Being bi is not the actual risk factor. It's sleeping around that is the risk factor. And if you're sleeping around with promiscuous people (porn people) then you're at higher risk generally.

AND, the article point out these factors such as recreational drug use as contributing factors to the problem.

Thanks for bringing this forward.


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