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Idealogically Promiscuous 11-14-2012 11:08 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 496326)
Sex slaves are not sex workers anymore than women who are raped are women just having sex. I was speaking about sex WORKERS.

prostitutes who use what most people consider to be 'pimps' are the minority. Very much the minority.

They are NOT the minority in urban communities. I don't know what your experience has been, specifically, and I won't attempt to diminish it, but I know what my work with Bienestar and Polaris have shown me.

Quote:

Do they exist? Sure. But such workers are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to prostitution and the minority. I do not disagree that legality would 'clean up' those in the bottom of the barrel, though. But it honestly wouldn't do much at all to help the majority of prostitutes. Actually, it would harm them. While I fully support legality, I also know that if what I used to do was legal, I wouldn't have made anywhere near the amount of money doing it. (and I wouldn't have been any safer, either)
Well too bad for you. But if it takes implementing policy that lowers the salary of one in order to provide safety for the many and it serves a legitimate public health directive, then so be it.

I see these women in droves every day here in LA. I see them walking the streets everywhere from Hollywood down to Compton. There is addiction involved that is exploited by pimps, organized crime, and other addicts. Your experience is the minority here, rivrrat. I am sorry to burst your carefully crafted bubble but social injustice does exist and it should be addressed through public policy when it is legitimate and real.

sky dancer 11-14-2012 11:10 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Legalizing prostitution is healthy for our country. Many prostitutes are at the financial mercy of their pimps, who often take more than half their income. Legalization would protect their rights. People who live outside the law feel that they can’t turn to the law for protection. Prostitutes are regularly beaten and even killed with little recourse.
http://www.examiner.com/article/10-r...e-prostitution

rivrrat 11-14-2012 11:21 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous (Post 496333)
They are NOT the minority in urban communities. I don't know what your experience has been, specifically, and I won't attempt to diminish it, but I know what my work with Bienestar and Polaris have shown me.

I would be willing to bet that they ARE. I worked in DC.

Quote:

Well too bad for you. But if it takes implementing policy that lowers the salary of one in order to provide safety for the many and it serves a legitimate public health directive, then so be it.

I see these women in droves every day here in LA. I see them walking the streets everywhere from Hollywood down to Compton. There is addiction involved that is exploited by pimps, organized crime, and other addicts.
I didn't say they didn't exist. But for all of those you see on the street, there are many more that you don't even know about who have NONE of those issues.

Quote:

Your experience is the minority here, rivrrat.
Of course I'm in the minority here. There's no one on this forum that I know of who has the experience I have in the industry. 10 would be the closest one. That doesn't change the facts.

Quote:

I am sorry to burst your carefully crafted bubble but social injustice does exist and it should be addressed through public policy when it is legitimate and real.
I didn't say it shouldn't be addressed. I simply stated the FACT that the prostitutes that would benefit from legalization would be in the minority. That the majority of prostitutes could and likely would be harmed by such legalization or at the very, very least gain nothing from it. I also stated the FACT that I fully support legalization despite those other facts.

Idealogically Promiscuous 11-14-2012 11:29 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 496343)
I would be willing to bet that they ARE. I worked in DC.


I didn't say they didn't exist. But for all of those you see on the street, there are many more that you don't even know about who have NONE of those issues.


It's estimated that off-street sex work comprises about 55% of the sex work that goes on in LA. That would be sex work through escort services, massage parlors, strip joints, etc.

However, of that 55%, it is estimates that almost 90% is the result of human trafficking, especially through organized crime. That's a HUGE issue.

Quote:

Of course I'm in the minority here. There's no one on this forum that I know of who has the experience I have in the industry. 10 would be the closest one. That doesn't change the facts.
No, I meant your experience is the minority among sex workers.

Quote:

I didn't say it shouldn't be addressed. I simply stated the FACT that the prostitutes that would benefit from legalization would be in the minority. That the majority of prostitutes could and likely would be harmed by such legalization or at the very, very least gain nothing from it. I also stated the FACT that I fully support legalization despite those other facts.
True, you did state that. But I think, in the long run, society as a whole would benefit form legalization. It is a public health issue and not a moral one to me. Also, it is a social injustice issue when I see the most vulnerable members of our society exploited in a way no one should ever suffer.

Sorry if I get worked up about it but it's become something very near to me and I get extremely passionate about it.

sky dancer 11-14-2012 11:34 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Prostitution is considered the most dangerous profession. Legalizing it brings safety measures that protect workers and their clients.

Prostitution, when viewed in the context of employment, is fundamentally different from any other work setting because of the high levels of violence and danger involved. People in prostitution face a “workplace” homicide rate 51 times higher than the next most dangerous job for women (working in a liquor store). Moreover, no legitimate job lists its acceptable “occupational hazards” as rape, sexual assault, torture, and homicide. Even countries that have legalized prostitution recognize that it is unlike any other “job.” For instance, the Australian occupational safety guidelines recommend that women entering prostitution take classes in self defense and hostage negotiation skills. In other work situations, employees would never be expected to tolerate the physical, mental, and sexual violence and abuse endemic in prostitution.
http://g.virbcdn.com/_f/files/43/Fil...ostitution.pdf

rivrrat 11-14-2012 11:36 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous (Post 496350)
It's estimated that off-street sex work comprises about 55% of the sex work that goes on in LA. That would be sex work through escort services, massage parlors, strip joints, etc.

However, of that 55%, it is estimates that almost 90% is the result of human trafficking, especially through organized crime. That's a HUGE issue.

Again, I'm talking about sex WORKERS. Not slaves. Not raped men and women.

Quote:

No, I meant your experience is the minority among sex workers.
I doubt that. But I understand why you think so. And there's nothing I can offer to prove otherwise. It's all anecdotal personal experience. I just know that most people would be pretty ****ing shocked to know the prevalence of prostitution as well as the people involved in it.


Quote:

True, you did state that. But I think, in the long run, society as a whole would benefit form legalization. It is a public health issue and not a moral one to me. Also, it is a social injustice issue when I see the most vulnerable members of our society exploited in a way no one should ever suffer.

Sorry if I get worked up about it but it's become something very near to me and I get extremely passionate about it.
I simply think it's not the government's business decide what work I can or can't get paid for, or that I can do something for free and yet it's illegal to charge someone for it. It's just ****ing stupid.

As far as safety goes, it would certainly help the streetwalkers. But the higher paid guys and gals will be put out of a job, or will be forced to engage in whatever aspect of prostitution wasn't legalized in order to bring in the same money.

sky dancer 11-14-2012 11:41 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Your experience may be unique in many ways Riv. It sounds like YOU didn't experience the violence that many sex workers report.

YOU say YOU always used condoms, yet you admit that many sex workers don't use condoms because they would lose money.

rivrrat 11-14-2012 11:43 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sky dancer (Post 496357)
Your experience may be unique in many ways Riv. It sounds like YOU didn't experience the violence that many sex workers report.

Of course not. I wasn't a street walker. And, I took precautions.

And no, it's not unique in the slightest.

Quote:

YOU say YOU always used condoms, yet you admit that many sex workers don't because they would lose money.
I said that porn proceeds would diminish.

From the article in the OP
Quote:

"The last time we attempted to go all condom, our industry lost sales by over 30 percent," said Deen. "That's a huge hit to our economy."

sky dancer 11-14-2012 11:45 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat (Post 496359)
Of course not. I wasn't a street walker. And, I took precautions.

And no, it's not unique in the slightest.


I said that porn proceeds would diminish.

Maybe you have contempt for the street walker and don't think he/she should be protected. We're sometimes talking about street kids.

rivrrat 11-14-2012 11:46 AM

Re: Porn industry ponders new condom law in Los Angeles
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sky dancer (Post 496360)
Maybe you have contempt for the street walker and don't think he/she should be protected.

I think streetwalkers are ****ing stupid. But they do make their own choices. I have stated nothing at all regarding "protecting" them, so your inference is out of thin air.


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