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News & Current Events Discuss Anti-jihad 'savage' ads going up in NYC subway at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Coyote We are talking about the repetitive and rather blanket statements about Muslims reacting violently presumbably due ...

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Old 09-25-2012, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: Anti-jihad 'savage' ads going up in NYC subway

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
We are talking about the repetitive and rather blanket statements about Muslims reacting violently presumbably due to their religion. Yes? No?

When I ask about Muslims rioting and murdering creaters of ads in America, or for that matter say Canada, Australia etc all you can come up with is an emotional appeal linking Muslims (who happened to be extremists) and 9/11.

Can you find any Muslims rioting and murdering in response to those ads or say, in response to that video here in America? Or Canada?
You're lumping the moderates in with the radicals. Why do you do that?? Do you think that all Muslims are "savages" and would be offended by the ad in the OP??
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: Anti-jihad 'savage' ads going up in NYC subway

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Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
It doesn't matter to you what happens in Islamic countries.
I have never said that.

Quote:
You think what happens in those countries makes no difference (and says absolutely NOTHING about Islam) as long as it doesn't happen here.
AGAIN - I have never said that.

What I have said is Muslims in those countries are not the same people as Muslims in other countries any more than Christians in Uganda are culturally the same people as Christians in the US.

Is that really so hard to comprehend or are you going to continue to put words in my mouth?
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:30 PM
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Default Re: Anti-jihad 'savage' ads going up in NYC subway

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
Yes.

Like abortion clinic bombers. Like abortion clinic bombers. Like death threats issued to the man who wanted to build a Muslim Community Center near Ground Zero.

Death threats are anonymous and can come from anywhere. One guy was attacked.

When it's as minimal as the violence of Christians in this country - less even - how can you discount one and make an example of the other?
And those killers are denounced from pulpits across the country.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Anti-jihad 'savage' ads going up in NYC subway

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You're lumping the moderates in with the radicals. Why do you do that?? Do you think that all Muslims are "savages" and would be offended by the ad in the OP??
One wouldn't have to think oneself a savage to be offended at an add that stereotyped one's religion as savage and that is the main thrust of the add.

Consider in the 1930's, adds depicting the stereotypical "greedy Jewish money-lender". Or, how about the stereotypical depictions of blacks vs white women? Well, you're average Jew is not within that category but don't you think he'd be offended? Perhaps unnerved? Maybe a little worried that things could escalate in a society that is uneasy and looking for scapegoats? Your average thug doesn't make nuanced distinctions and mob mentality can erupt very easily.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Anti-jihad 'savage' ads going up in NYC subway

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And those killers are denounced from pulpits across the country.
Show me the mass demonstrations against those killers - the same kinds you expect from Islam.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:32 PM
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Default Re: Anti-jihad 'savage' ads going up in NYC subway

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Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
Show me the death threats over insults to Christianity.
Show me the mass demonstrations here over insults to Mohammed.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Anti-jihad 'savage' ads going up in NYC subway

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
I have never said that.



AGAIN - I have never said that.
You're saying that what Muslims do in countries where Islam is the law does not reflect Islam as a whole and cannot be used to judge Islam in any way whatsoever.
Quote:
What I have said is Muslims in those countries are not the same people as Muslims in other countries any more than Christians in Uganda are culturally the same people as Christians in the US.

Is that really so hard to comprehend or are you going to continue to put words in my mouth?
Name a Muslim-majority country that doesn't have an oppressive and barbaric culture. Name a commonly practiced religion besides Islam that is also a type of government.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: Anti-jihad 'savage' ads going up in NYC subway

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
One wouldn't have to think oneself a savage to be offended at an add that stereotyped one's religion as savage and that is the main thrust of the add.

Consider in the 1930's, adds depicting the stereotypical "greedy Jewish money-lender". Or, how about the stereotypical depictions of blacks vs white women? Well, you're average Jew is not within that category but don't you think he'd be offended? Perhaps unnerved? Maybe a little worried that things could escalate in a society that is uneasy and looking for scapegoats? Your average thug doesn't make nuanced distinctions and mob mentality can erupt very easily.
Jewish reaction to thousands of antisemitic Arab cartoons: No riots, no injuries, no deaths CiF Watch
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: Anti-jihad 'savage' ads going up in NYC subway

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Originally Posted by Kizzume View Post
You're saying that what Muslims do in countries where Islam is the law does not reflect Islam as a whole and cannot be used to judge Islam in any way whatsoever.
No. YOU are saying that.

Islam, is as diverse as it's elements - like any major religion. If you are going to judge it as a whole - what elements are you going to use? Which traditions? Which histories? They're all Islam and the religion differs in how it is practiced and what aspects are followed around the world. Christianity is much the same. If you want to judge it - what do you CHOOSE to judge it by?

Quote:
Name a Muslim-majority country that doesn't have an oppressive and barbaric culture. Name a commonly practiced religion besides Islam that is also a type of government.
For your first question: There is no country I know of that has had a religiously influenced government and a system of law that includes religious law that is not oppressive and barbaric. In the world today almost all of those countries are Islamic.

Second: Historically, Christianity has also been a type of government. The king was head of church and state and the church made laws. In some societies the idea of a heavenly kingdom on earth was taken literally.


Christianity started out as an oppressive barbaric culture. It has reformed many of it's elements through a process of reformation and also because it's main adherents reside in western countries that are largely secular with a decent system of justice and human rights. I know you are going to say "but that was history" - that is the automatic disclaimer when ever history is brought up but history brought us to where we are now and you can't make an argument in a vacuum.

Islam has not had it's reformation and when Christianity began a turn in one direction (?600 years ago) - Islam made a fundamentalist turn that turned it from a culture that embraced enlightenment and science during the Christian dark ages to a narrow and culturally stagnent society. In order to exist in the modern world, particularly it HAS to reform. Given how it is practiced in non Middle East/African cultures, it is happening but, if the history of religious reformation is anything to go by, it will be a rocky road that's been traveled before.
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Anti-jihad 'savage' ads going up in NYC subway

Were those cartoons here? We aren't talking about reactions to cartoons in other countries but mainstream subway adds HERE in a supposedly civilized and tolerant country.
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