Witness: Trayvon Martin Attacked Zimmerman - Page 22

AzMike · #**211** (**permalink**) 03-25-2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coyote

Rules are to insure safety. If Zimmerman had obeyed them - if he had watched and listened to the dispatcher and obeyed what the procedures are for neighborhood watch - Martin would not be dead and Zimmerman who I suspect is a basically decent man, would not have to live with the horrendous consequences of his stupidity. There just is no way around it.

You are also distorting what I said - I'm not talking about him being convicted. READ.

You're making a lot of assumptions and pinning all of the wrong doings on one guy. Are you sure you know the whole story?

MintJulep · #**212** (**permalink**) 03-25-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coyote

Ok so the headline was misleading (I guess it's just more media bias).

Who said it was a "little child"? Oh right no one. Just you.

And no, that is not attacking. Frankly - it could have been just as easily self defense if he was afraid Zimmerman was going to kill him (he didn't have a gun after all) - BECAUSE NO ONE SAW THE BEGINNING OF THE ALTERCATION.

How do you know? We aren't privy to every piece of evidence the police have. Someone may well have witnessed the entire thing, and it hasn't been leaked yet. His friend who spoke out on his behalf today said there is evidence forthcoming which will justify Zimmerman's actions.

Comet · #**213** (**permalink**) 03-25-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MintJulep

If you feel your life is in danger, you have the right to use lethal force in the state of Florida.

Not if I started the fight I do not. I cannot claim self defense and justify killing someone for a fight I initiated.

Again, I am not saying that is what happened here, just pointing out the law.

MintJulep · #**214** (**permalink**) 03-25-2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Comet

Not if I started the fight I do not. I cannot claim self defense and justify killing someone for a fight I initiated.

Again, I am not saying that is what happened here, just pointing out the law.

There is zero evidence of that in this case, at least that we are privy to.

crazyflamingos · #**215** (**permalink**) 03-25-2012, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AzMike

Whether you're a cop or a community watch, security guard or some joe just walking down the street at the wrong time any death you are involved in is on your head. It doesn't matter what your particular groups rules are.

I don't agree with that.

Take the scenario where some guy threatens me with deadly violence, pointing a gun at me, for instance, and I manage to kill that person instead.

That wasn't homicide on my part. It was suicide on the part of the dead guy.

Maybe I would feel guilty; maybe not. But the death is always on the head of the one who decided to initiate a deadly encounter in the first place.

rivrrat · #**216** (**permalink**) 03-25-2012, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MintJulep

There is zero evidence of that in this case, at least that we are privy to.

Well, except for the 911 call and the statement from the woman on the phone with Martin at the time.

MintJulep · #**217** (**permalink**) 03-25-2012, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivrrat

Well, except for the 911 call and the statement from the woman on the phone with Martin at the time.

That isn't evidence or an eyewitness account, that's hearsay and the phone going dead means nothing. It certainly doesn't establish Zimmerman laid a hand on Martin.

Interestingly, Martin having a phone, didn't call 911 especially if he was concerned he was being followed. Zimmerman did call the police and was waiting for them. Zimmerman states Martin attacked him, and the evidence at the scene corroborated it.

Here is the latest official report on the shooting.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigati...n_shooting.pdf

rivrrat · #**218** (**permalink**) 03-25-2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MintJulep

That isn't evidence or an eyewitness account, that's hearsay and the phone going dead means nothing. It certainly doesn't establish Zimmerman laid a hand on Martin.

Yes, it is evidence, and yes it does mean something, and it does establish the possibility that Zimmerman initiated the altercation and blows to hell his statement that he was 'attacked' while walking away.

Quote:

Interestingly, Martin having a phone, didn't call 911 especially if he was concerned he was being followed.

Not everyone calls 911 every time they're concerned.

Quote:

Zimmerman did call the police and was waiting for them.

No, he wasn't waiting for them. He was taking matters into his own hands. He was TOLD to wait for them, but he didn't listen.

Comet · #**219** (**permalink**) 03-25-2012, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MintJulep

There is zero evidence of that in this case, at least that we are privy to.

I agree. Never said there was. I am simply showing that just because Martin was on top of Zimmerman, does not mean he was justified in shooting Martin.

Allow me to give you a specific hypothetical example.

Zimmerman exits his vehicle and approaches Martin. "What are you doing here?"

"None of your damn business," Martin replied.

"Tell me what you are doing here in this neighborhood."

"Screw you."

Zimmerman shoves Martin, Martin shoves back. A fight commences. During the fight, Martin ends up on top of Zimmerman and starts punching him. Zimmerman pulls out his gun and shoots him.

That hypothetical scenario would not be covered under the Florida law.

MintJulep · #**220** (**permalink**) 03-25-2012, 10:58 PM

Something I just read on Yahoo questions, allegedly written by a family friend. Very interesting read.

Quote:

George called 911 to report a suspicious person. As he got off the phone the kid attacked him and started beating the crap out of him and slamming his head against the walkway. All the while saying "you're gunna die tonight motherxxxxxx". George was screaming help when someone in a nearby apartment called 911 again. George's shirt came up while the kid was beating him, revealing the gun that he is licensed to carry. The kid went for the gun and they struggled for it, George ended up shooting the kid and saving his own life. All these people on yahoo saying that he should be in jail when they don't even know what happened. George is the brother-in-law of one of our good family friends, works with my parents, and is one of the nicest most gentle people you will ever meet. He's completely devastated that this happened and has barely been functional from the guilt. No one shoots someone for no reason, and especially not George. And they need to stop pulling the race card, George is Hispanic, not white."

Was Trayvon Martin really just a thug who got what he deserved? - Yahoo! Answers

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