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News & Current Events Discuss Audio: Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Taliban at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Oftencold Really? You are talking about the carcasses of rabid killers who thought it a fine idea ...

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Old 01-17-2012, 01:55 AM
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Default Re: Audio: Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Talib

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
Really?

You are talking about the carcasses of rabid killers who thought it a fine idea to strap bombs to stupid teenagers and send them into crowds to explode and kill strangers. Don't you think that that shows just a smidgeon more of a "serious lack of respect for human life" than giving the soon to be rotten cadavers a richly deserved special baptism?
Sigh. No, I'd say it placed them about equal, if you want the truth.

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And I say with respect that if you've never "before seen such a serious lack of respect for human life," then you are woefully uninformed in the subject of history.
Sorry, I should have specified. Within the context of a political forum, that's the least respect for human life I've ever seen.

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By the way, free men, really should be slightly frightening, if they intend to stay free. Again, this is what we learn from history.

Finally, verily, verily I say unto thee, that nothing these Marines did in this matter was a particularly unique behavior for soldiers in war.
No, probably not. However, it is against the UCMJ as far as I know, and they got caught. Or is it OK to violate the UCMJ in special circumstances?
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Audio: Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Talib

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
Oh, I can understand rules. But rules can be silly, unworkable and destructive too. And they should be reviewed from time to time.
I agree, but UNTIL those rules are changed, they are STILL rules...

If you want to smoke a joint, great...But do not light up UNTIL the law says "It's OK to light up."...As long as the law says "It's illegal to light up.", the lighting up is a crime no matter how many support you or how strong your motivation is...

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Here though, we probably have a rule that probably did not originate with a line officer who served in combat.

That said, I ask you to consider whether these Marines are likely to be punished for breaking the rule, or punished to a appease the outrage of people who think that their actions in some way harmed the dead Taliban?

I submit that their punishment is almost certainly going to be of a severity set by political concerns.
Dude...That's exactly what I said earlier...

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I just want the punishment to fit the crime and not fit this "outrage" routine...
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And yes the Military has many rules. I've been there. They also have a culture, it has aspects that involve mocking the bodies of dead enemies. Photographic examples abound, but probably shouldn't be posted here.
Then it appears that military law is in conflict with military culture...Law wins until it's changed...
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Audio: Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Talib

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Originally Posted by Segep View Post
Sigh. No, I'd say it placed them about equal, if you want the truth.



Sorry, I should have specified. Within the context of a political forum, that's the least respect for human life I've ever seen.



No, probably not. However, it is against the UCMJ as far as I know, and they got caught. Or is it OK to violate the UCMJ in special circumstances?
It is probably against the UCMJ, and frankly, I don't have a problem with a mild punishment for what should be seen at worst as a mild offense. But I expect their punishment and disposition to be dictated by political concerns.

I also have an objection to rules and laws which place an unbearable burden on human nature. This is where benign neglect comes into play on the part of their superiors, and why they were stupid to take and lose control of the video.

(I have considered the possibility too, that this was a psyopps event, and that we're being told that the marines will be punished to maintain deniablity. I have read, but cannot confirm that some Muslim sects believe that a mishandled corpse condemns that former occupant to Hell. If that's the case, this may have all been staged to terrorize the terrorists. I merely speculate here.)
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:25 AM
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Default Re: Audio: Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Talib

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
It is probably against the UCMJ, and frankly, I don't have a problem with a mild punishment for what should be seen at worst as a mild offense. But I expect their punishment and disposition to be dictated by political concerns.
I don't know what the punishment is, but I think they should receive it and no more. I really don't blame these guys.

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I also have an objection to rules and laws which place an unbearable burden on human nature. This is where benign neglect comes into play on the part of their superiors, and why they were stupid to take and lose control of the video.
Can't argue with that.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Audio: Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Talib

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Perhaps some day you'll recognize that your sense of "right" on this matter comes from an emotional source of vindictive vengeance.
I don't see anything wrong with vengeance, and as a matter of fact, I feel good whenever punks get their butts handed to them.
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Audio: Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Talib

Allen West has the best response:

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“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.
“All these over-emotional pundits and armchair quarterbacks need to chill. Does anyone remember the two Soldiers from the 101st Airborne Division who were beheaded and gutted in Iraq?
“The Marines were wrong. Give them a maximum punishment under field grade level Article 15 (non-judicial punishment), place a General Officer level letter of reprimand in their personnel file, and have them in full dress uniform stand before their Battalion, each personally apologize to God, Country, and Corps videotaped and conclude by singing the full US Marine Corps Hymn without a teleprompter.
“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”
I agree with everything but the last sentence.
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: Audio: Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Talib

This kind of thing has been going for millenia with great effectiveness. Everything from lining roads with enemy's heads on stakes to using your enemy's bodies as torches. When you see the direct results of fighting against an enemy exhibited this way, it will either motivate you to stop fighting or motivate you to fight harder. Many here are assuming that this will ONLY motivate the Taliban to fight harder, but what if the opposite effect is seen?? What if because of this a whole bunch of people decide that having thier corpses pissed on by US Marines is not how they see their funeral?? I'm not naive enough to think that this will be the only response we see, but I'm also not naive enough to think that it won't have this result. So, my question is:
IF this act caused 100 Taliban fighters to quit fighting and go home and make babies with thier four wives and raise those children to be people of peace because those 100 men don't want thier children to see their corpes get pissed on by the USMC and don't want to see thier children's corpses get pissed on by the USMC, would it be worth it???

I know that one of the first answers will be "We can't lower ourselves to their level." or "The problem is that it would cause 200 more to join." or something similar, but PLEASE try to look at this objectively and directly. Also, I have little confidence that my scenario would really happen, but IF it did.....
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Audio: Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Talib

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
It's always nice to see that noted major commentators agree with me.

Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Taliban - YouTube

Mark Levin - I'll Tell You How It Happened They Dropped Their Pants And Pissed On The Carcasses - YouTube

A friend of mine, a family man with a penchant for history, said that maybe they should have torn off their heads and peed down their necks.

At first, I thought that I was going to be isolated in my opinion that the marines should in no way be punished for this trivial, humorous and boyish exercise.
And who, exactly, is Mark Levin?

And I think it's sick that they pissed on the bodies of dead men.
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:36 PM
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Post Re: Audio: Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Talib

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This kind of thing has been going for millenia with great effectiveness.
I welcome you to show any evidence on the claim of effectiveness.

Quite frankly, there is counter evidence regarding other action INFLAMIng the Taliban for higher recruitment.
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Old 01-17-2012, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: Audio: Mark Levin Asks Who Is Really Offended By Soldiers Urinating On Dead Talib

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And who, exactly, is Mark Levin?

And I think it's sick that they pissed on the bodies of dead men.
Food for thought:
This isn't going to get used as much of a recruiting tool, since just about anyone who would join the Taliban because of this has most likely already joined, but what about the opposite effect?? What if this DE-motivates some people because they can't stand the idea of having their corpses be drenched in the urine of US Marines??? I think this is a disgusting thing to do, BUT I can also see how it could work to our advantage. Go back to old Vlad the Impaler. While barbarous in the extreme, the act of impaling his enemies probably saved the lives of a lot of people. When you see just how horribly you're going to die if you lose, your motivation to fight drops substantially. I despise the idea of using this kind of tactic, but from a purely objective POV, I can understand why it would be used. Vlad's impaling efforts were seen as incredibly cruel, but if they saved the lives of men and women who would have otherwise fought against him, this vicious act was actually less violent than the alternative.
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