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News & Current Events Discuss Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico at the General Forum; Originally Posted by AK Gandy Although someone made an error in judgment (because it was guns), I don't see this ...

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Old 03-05-2011, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

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Originally Posted by AK Gandy View Post
Although someone made an error in judgment (because it was guns), I don't see this as being a whole lot different than selling drugs or stealing property....by undercover agents trying to bust an illegal organization.
I originally thought the same thing when I heard of this story, but this is far different...

The idea of letting the little fish go in order to get the bigger fish has been around awhile, but it's NOT supposed to go down when the "little fish" concerned are violent killers...

Example...

I might let a bank robbery ring go forward with a robbery we find out about beforehand if I know their plan is to rob in the middle of the night so we can see if the money ends up with "bigger fish"...

But I would NOT do the same if I knew the robbers' plan was to use AK-47s in the middle of the day...

And THAT'S the probem here...

Letting things go to see where the ladder leads you is all well and good, but NEVER when going up that ladder includes putting non-participants and other's in harm's way...especially FATAL harm's way...

The idea of a plan to take down a cartel is commendable, but...

1) NOT informing and including the Mexican government is beyond contempt...

2) Willingly arming criminals who murder under ANY circumstances is beyong contempt...

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Old 03-05-2011, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
But don't ANYONE dare blame obama.......
Is that what you are doing?
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:08 PM
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Default Re: Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Is that what you are doing?
I haven't...

But IF (and I said "IF") Obama protects and defends the acussed, is found to have appointed those who've made this decision, or is complicitly silent in the matter, I WILL place blame as another example of a rudderless ship...

Both in his comments about Libya and his co-press conference with Mexican presidnt Calderone this week, Obama was SPECIFIC in pointing out his defense and protection of the American citizen...

If he does NOT attempt to get to the bottom of this and blows it off, it will show his words as empty...

An American is dead because of a project that was undertaken by a department that is part of the Executive Branch...

The buck is supposed to stop somewhere...
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:17 PM
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Default Re: Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

Here we go again.

It will always somehow come back on Obama, but.......... we don't hold Bush to the same standard.
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

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Originally Posted by AK Gandy View Post
Here we go again.

It will always somehow come back on Obama, but.......... we don't hold Bush to the same standard.
If you believe the standards were lower for Bush, you can always be the first to RAISE those standards to the current president...

But I don't see that happening...Instead, I see "I believe Bush didn't hold people accountable, so I'm comfortable with Obama not holding people accountable either."...

Should we file this under "Hope" or "Change"?...
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
If you believe the standards were lower for Bush, you can always be the first to RAISE those standards to the current president...

But I don't see that happening...Instead, I see "I believe Bush didn't hold people accountable, so I'm comfortable with Obama not holding people accountable either."...

Should we file this under "Hope" or "Change"?...
Wondering if you remember arms for hostages?
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK Gandy View Post

Sorry, but I didn't understand that statement at all.
I'm not surprised, I'm very tired and I bungled it badly.
Correction:
But that is extra-governmental, and Business' response is not necessarily a prediction of the successful effects of an appointee's policies, but out of an appraisal of how much or how little damadge they will do to their betters in the Private Sector.

My appologies
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There's a first time for everything.
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Originally Posted by AK Gandy View Post
Oooooh, real original.
"Original," is synonymous with "first time." We have concurrence! give us a hug, and lets sing a round of "Kumbya!"
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

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Originally Posted by AK Gandy View Post

And you base this on what........?
Not on my gut. The ATF, if allowing weapons across the border is not investigating on the border, anbd I'm sure they've exceeded their mandate. But to be sure, I'll try to look it up for tomorrow when I have some time.
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:18 PM
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Post Re: Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
If his company was involved with intentionally allowing deadly products across international borders, yeah, I think most rational people's first thought might be the Mr. Jobs had authorized that activity, that the permissions had quite probably come from thei highest levels.
There is no logic in that ASSUMPTION.
There might be some basis for thinking authorization may have came from a highER level.
But assuming the highEST level is automatically the reason for the actiosn?



Quote:
Originally Posted by OftenCold
Myself, I doubt that Obama woulds have been involved. Quite a while back I came to suspect strongly that he is asked for permission about very little, that people acting in his name feel that asking him would be a pointless gesture. Its owner does not ask the chair, not even a throne, for permission to sit, after all.

It's funny how regardless of how some people approach this issue, it has to involve some attack against Obama.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
I love the left's hypocrisy when it comes to defending this empty suit we call obama....
WHERE is there "hypocrisy"?
It's amusing how some people toss out half-formed ideas, primarily cause they know that if they tried to give full form to the idea it would be obviously hollow...


Quote:
Originally Posted by AK Gandy
The sad part is that an agent was killed by one of those guns and I'm sure we will see a lawsuit, but does anyone believe that the bad guys wouldn't have been able to get guns from somewhere else?
Don't you know the saying?
If you outlaw guns, then only outlaws will have guns.
So obviously your comment is understood, but rejected cause it's not politically convenient for the right (this time around)...



Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd
If you believe the standards were lower for Bush, you can always be the first to RAISE those standards to the current president...
That's pretty slick.
The double-standard of the right goes ignored...

... but you press the left to "raise" a standard to match the right's hypocritical standard for Obama.

I recognize (belief is not an accurate term) that the right has developed an absurd level of blame for Obama with new standards that never existed with their treatment of Bush.

I believe there is a happy medium somewhere inbetween.
The solution is NOT for the Left to match the right's rabid bashing...

If you believe the left has shown any hypocrisy on this issue, please cite fact.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd
Instead, I see "I believe Bush didn't hold people accountable, so I'm comfortable with Obama not holding people accountable either."...
Who is actually making that argument???
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:39 PM
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Post Re: Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico

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Originally Posted by AK Gandy View Post
Thank you.
You have just proved once again, that the right cannot use the same criteria to judge themselves...as they use to judge the left.
Which, of course.....the left also does.
You could administer the coup de grâce by reminding OftenCold of exactly how much "stimulus" money Bush approved...
Oh. Yes. He did!

But of course, blame falls blindly to Obama.
Not Bush...
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