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News & Current Events Discuss West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd dead at 92 at the General Forum; Originally Posted by Coyote Robert Byrd was a man who cherished the traditions of the senate, the constitution, and the ...

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Old 06-28-2010, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd dead at 92

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
Robert Byrd was a man who cherished the traditions of the senate, the constitution, and the ideal of service to his people.
Until healthcare came along...Then he threw the very idea of budget reconciliation (which was his) away for political gain...
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd dead at 92

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Until healthcare came along...Then he threw the very idea of budget reconciliation (which was his) away for political gain...
For political gain?

Or because WV needs better health care badly?
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd dead at 92

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
For political gain?

Or because WV needs better health care badly?
The ends do not justify the means...

You DON'T do an end around established law for the sake of doing something an individual, group, or even a Senate believes will be for the common good...

This is the Left mantra throughout the last 2 years...

"We are at "A", and if we get to "B", the world will be a better place, so I'll buy votes, do shady backrooms deals, evade the law, and even bastardize the budget reconciliation process in order to get there...The damage done to due process?...I don't care...As long as I get to where "I" want."...
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd dead at 92

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The ends do not justify the means...

You DON'T do an end around established law for the sake of doing something an individual, group, or even a Senate believes will be for the common good...

This is the Left mantra throughout the last 2 years...

"We are at "A", and if we get to "B", the world will be a better place, so I'll buy votes, do shady backrooms deals, evade the law, and even bastardize the budget reconciliation process in order to get there...The damage done to due process?...I don't care...As long as I get to where "I" want."...
False. The right has refused to pass anything, requiring a 60 vote majority instead of the normal 50+1. If you want to blame anyone for doing and end roads around the established law, it's the Republicans.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd dead at 92

Well, for good or bad, he was one heck of a character who I
believe really cared for his state.

Its too bad none of the other lowlifes in WA care about their
states....just fattening their wallets and selling their votes
like whores on a street corner.

You have to give that to him.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd dead at 92

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
False. The right has refused to pass anything, requiring a 60 vote majority instead of the normal 50+1. If you want to blame anyone for doing and end roads around the established law, it's the Republicans.
Normal 50+1?...What Senate are you referring to, 'cause it sure ain't the US's...
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd dead at 92

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Normal 50+1?...What Senate are you referring to, 'cause it sure ain't the US's...
Actually the rules of the US Senate are quite clear. 50+1 is the longstanding rule. Politics has made people change the game without changing the rules. It's like "free parking" in monolopy.
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You get the respect you give. And if you're a Republican, you b*tch about paybacks being a b*tch. So sorry you're mad your guy is getting the respect you gave ours, Snowflakes.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:18 PM
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Default Re: West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd dead at 92

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Actually the rules of the US Senate are quite clear. 50+1 is the longstanding rule. Politics has made people change the game without changing the rules. It's like "free parking" in monolopy.
No...the rules were changed...And by (drumroll, please) the DEMOCRATS! (5 seconds after they got a supermajority...go figure)...

Quote:
In 1975, the Democratic Senate majority, having achieved a net gain of four seats in the 1974 Senate elections to a strength of 61 (with an additional Independent caucusing with them for a total of 62), reduced the necessary supermajority to three-fifths (60 out of 100). However, as a compromise to those who were against the revision, the new rule also changed the requirement for determining the number of votes needed for a cloture motion's passage from those Senators "present and voting" to those Senators "duly chosen and sworn". Thus, 60 votes for cloture would be necessary regardless of whether every Senator voted. The only time a lesser number would become acceptable is when a Senate seat is vacant. (For example, if there were two vacancies in the Senate, thereby making 98 Senators "duly chosen and sworn", it would only take 59 votes for a cloture motion to pass.)

The new version of the cloture rule, which has remained in place since 1975, makes it considerably easier for the Senate majority to invoke cloture. This has considerably strengthened the power of the majority, and allowed it to pass many bills that would otherwise have been filibustered.
An idea would be to have the majority attempt to bring bills to the floor that aren't so radical and unconstitutional that 50+1 would pass with ease...But instead, the Democratic majority continues to bring up crap, trash, trashy crap, and crappy trash with the knowledge that 50+1 would never work, so they (with their 1975-Democratic-changed rule) can end debate at will and automatically vote on things that reasonable people would conclude should be debated (Remember...the Senate passed the Stimulus package after FIVE FU**ING HOURS!!!!)...

The Dems used the filibuster PROUDLY when the Republicans were in the majority (The repubs NEVER had more than 55 Senators from 1994 to 2006 so they never had filibuster-break power)...

But the SECOND they ended up with the supermajority, they broke the same filibuster powers they consistantly used with the 60 vote rule created by their OWN DEMOCRATIC PREDECESSORS...

Let's go to Senate Majority leader Harry Reid...Back when he was in the minority...

Quote:
Mr. President, yesterday morning I spoke here about a statement the Majority Leader issued calling the filibuster a “procedural gimmick.”

The Websters dictionary defines “gimmick” as - - “an ingenious new scheme or angle.” No Mr. President, the filibuster is not a scheme. And it is not new. The filibuster is far from a “procedural gimmick.” It is part of the fabric of this institution. It was well known in colonial legislatures, and it is an integral part of our country’s 217 years of history.

The first filibuster in the U.S. Congress happened in 1790. It was used by lawmakers from Virginia and South Carolina who were trying to prevent Philadelphia from hosting the first Congress.

Since 1790, the filibuster has been employed hundreds and hundreds of times. Senators have used it to stand up to popular presidents. To block legislation. And yes – even to stall executive nominees.

The roots of the filibuster can be found in the Constitution and in the Senate rules.

In establishing each House of Congress, Article I Section 5 of the Constitution states that “Each House may determine the rules.”

In crafting the rules of the Senate, Senators established the right to extended debate - and they formalized it with Rule XXII almost 100 years ago. This rule codified the practice that Senators could debate extensively.

Under Rule XXII, debate may be cut off under limited circumstances.

- 67 votes to end a filibuster of a motion to amend a Senate rule.
- 60 votes to end a filibuster against any other legislative business.

A conversation between Thomas Jefferson and George Washington describes the United States Senate and our Founders Fathers vision of it.

Jefferson asked Washington what is the purpose of the Senate?
Washington responded with a question of his own, “Why did you pour that coffee into your saucer?” “To cool it,” Jefferson replied. To which Washington said; “Even so, we pour legislation into the senatorial saucer to cool it.”

And this is exactly what the filibuster does. It encourages moderation and consensus. It gives voice to the minority, so that cooler heads may prevail.
Your logic of "Attack the other side for the things you do" makes Alinsky proud...
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd dead at 92

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
No...the rules were changed...And by (drumroll, please) the DEMOCRATS! (5 seconds after they got a supermajority...go figure)...

An idea would be to have the majority attempt to bring bills to the floor that aren't so radical and unconstitutional that 50+1 would pass with ease...But instead, the Democratic majority continues to bring up crap, trash, trashy crap, and crappy trash with the knowledge that 50+1 would never work, so they (with their 1975-Democratic-changed rule) can end debate at will and automatically vote on things that reasonable people would conclude should be debated (Remember...the Senate passed the Stimulus package after FIVE FU**ING HOURS!!!!)...

The Dems used the filibuster PROUDLY when the Republicans were in the majority (The repubs NEVER had more than 55 Senators from 1994 to 2006 so they never had filibuster-break power)...

But the SECOND they ended up with the supermajority, they broke the same filibuster powers they consistantly used with the 60 vote rule created by their OWN DEMOCRATIC PREDECESSORS...

Let's go to Senate Majority leader Harry Reid...Back when he was in the minority...



Your logic of "Attack the other side for the things you do" makes Alinsky proud...
The fillibuster has never been used more than by the Republicans in the current congress. The rules were changed to eliminate requiring 75% of the senate from being forced to agree on an issue for it to override a fillibuster by one man, NOT to give anyone an advantage. The general standing rule still requires 50+1 UNLESS there is a fillibuster and that's the problem... the GOP is always fillibustering.
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Continue that line of reasoning, Muffin... I'm judging you. Harshly.



You get the respect you give. And if you're a Republican, you b*tch about paybacks being a b*tch. So sorry you're mad your guy is getting the respect you gave ours, Snowflakes.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: West Virginia Sen. Robert Byrd dead at 92

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Originally Posted by Cat slave View Post
Well, for good or bad, he was one heck of a character who I
believe really cared for his state.

Its too bad none of the other lowlifes in WA care about their
states....just fattening their wallets and selling their votes
like whores on a street corner.

You have to give that to him.
Yes and his memorization skills were legendary. That must have been a thorn in the side of any debater even as he grew older.
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