The fact that Linda Shafran herself responded in a statement to the emails that were made public shows they're real...

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

And the evidence that she did such a thing comes from ...
Again, from the author of the blog?

We're back to the original assessment. No independent verification.
How did this "CajunBoy" supposedly get the e-mails in the first place?

==================================================

Incidentally cnredd, did you notice the paragraph that came LATER in the article?
What it REALLY says is rather interesting...

One of the allegations is that the guy who performed the Mancow waterboarding didn't know what he was doing.
They compared it to the "Hitchens" waterboarding, by experts.

So they clearly establish that what the author of this article thinks is a REAL waterboarding, is "somewhat nightmarish, making us want to never have anything to do with a waterboarding, ever".

You're quoting an author who clearly thinks waterboarding is torture...

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Republicans have a sweet racket because they run on "government is ineffective," and then when they **** things up, they go, "See." – Bill Maher

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint.
When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist."
--Dom Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Did I say anything otherwise?...

Hint - It's the opposite of "yes"

As far as asking THE REAL QUESTION..."Whether or not Mancow now believes it's torture, should it STILL BE DONE TO TERRORISTS?", Mancow is QUITE CLEAR...

So even if everything done here is sincere this is what we get out of it...

Mancow before - "Waterboarding is not torture and should be used on terrorists."

Mancow after - ""Waterboarding is torture and should be used on terrorists."

Notice the common denominator?...

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

How many months back can I dig to answer that question?
Cause your current attitude on the issue isn't the same one you've had from the start...



And honestly cnredd?

These days, just getting somebody to ACKNOWLEDGE IT IS TORTURE is a major victory in my book.
I have had my fill with people trying to obfuscate and deny the obvious. Trying to pull every sort of insane argumentative ploy to refuse to admit the truth, that JUST GETTING the truth makes me happy.

I've set my standards pretty low in that regards...

And on that, he and I are in COMPLETE AGREEMENT.
From the start, I have explicitly said that if there IS a ticking bomb to save people from, then I am behind it.

But if there is no ticking bomb ...
If we just want to find out if maybe there could be one???
Then that is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT subject.


The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

If "best interests" are all that matters, then why not employ that strategy here in the U.S.?

If the police officer has the "best interests" at heart, assaulting a person in custody shouldn't be a big deal, right? I mean, if we THINK that person has knowledge about the location of a kidnap victim who could be killed, we're in "best interests" territory, aren't we?
Heck. Let's make him a non-U.S. citizen to boot.


Slippery slope territory, and people are automatically giving in to thinking torture is "okay" if Americans are doing it, and we can claim "best interests" WITH DETAILS KEPT CLASSIFIED SECRET...

Sends shivers down my spine to think our morality is so easily removed by fear.

__________________
Republicans have a sweet racket because they run on "government is ineffective," and then when they **** things up, they go, "See." – Bill Maher

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint.
When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist."
--Dom Hélder Pessoa Câmara

You looked at that answer completely wrong...

When you pointed out that I was "quoting an author who clearly thinks waterboarding is torture", I responded with "Did I say anything otherwise?"...

I was ONLY referring to "the author and his feelings on it."...

You interpreted that as to mean MY FEELINGS on it...

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

I'm not talking about JUST this thread regarding your feelings on it cnredd.

For example, I remember a definition you gave a while back for "torture" which required some kind of inflicted physical disfigurement (as in scars, bruises, cuts, etc)
An obvious maneuver to try to get "extreme techniques" which don't leave a mark to be regarded as NOT torture.

THAT is part of where I have seen your feelings on it, and I can dig back deeper if necessary...
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/ope...g-torture.html

__________________
Republicans have a sweet racket because they run on "government is ineffective," and then when they **** things up, they go, "See." – Bill Maher

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint.
When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist."
--Dom Hélder Pessoa Câmara

Can we all agree here that water boarding is torture?
It is.
It is.
It is.

__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1
So I say again why aren't you demanding that all of these people all be prosecuted for participating in TORTURE?
Explain to me why they are NOT GUILTY of TORTURE?

you replied
Who are you referring to by "all these people"?
The people in Spencer Collins clip?

Such a mentality would be like charging boxers and martial artists for assault...

Or charging interrogators with interrogating. Ever wonder why it is called interrogating instead of questioning?
But you claim the act is heinous and should never be done.

To whom am I referring?
Similar to the requests of the left wing, EVERYBODY INVOLVED in any way, the lawyers who OK'd it, the staff that held him, the man pouring the water, the people that "authorized" it (even Mankow himself), Those that provided the equipment.....heck even everybody that watched it and didn't demand prosecution.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1
If it is torture, then EVERY time it is done, it is TORTURE and somebody, all who participated should go to jail.

you replied
Do you comprehend the difference between RAPE and consensual sex?

Side answer: Like the difference between Slavery and work?

So I guess when the rapist says "she/he wanted it" the charges must be dropped. How about statutory rape? How about the concept that NO ONE should be tortured that you keep spouting.....you are "changing the definition" of torture when you say it is torture to do this to one person but it is not torture to do it to another. When you "convince" a friend to ride a roller coaster when they are afraid, is it "torture"? YES to them it is and therefore you should go to jail.

Now to show how poor you analogy actually is I would like to point out that the "prisoners" did not want to be detained.........but they were. This also is a form of torture/punishment. Also note it is done to protect society from the prisoner which was also the purpose of the "waterboarding". Another side note....... imprisonment also protects the prisoner from people taking personal retribution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1
I can only assume that you think it is OK to do it "just to show people what it is" but NOT OK to do it to get life saving information from KNOWN terrorists with special circumstances on orders from the HIGHEST authorities.

you replied
I swear. Sometimes people like you say things that are REALLY disturbing, above and beyond the normal "disturbing" realm.

"on orders from the highest authorities"?
This reeks of the Nixon mentality that if the president says to do something, that makes it not illegal.
Which would be interesting if you guys would apply it to Obama...

I will skip over the fact that you ignored the entire meaning of my statement and only sought to "second guess" what a commander had to order in a time of war. If a commander has the authority to order people to be KILLED and maimed does he also not have the authority to make them "uncomfortable"?
Nice of you to notice how Obama is "at war" with American citizens and the CONSTITUTION.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adept1
The next question though is WHY do liberals think it is necessary to TELL OUR ENEMIES all about it?

you replied
This is another one of those "disturbing" arguments.
You want to do something that is DETRIMENTAL to our troops (due to Muslim reaction), but want to KEEP IT SECRET cause you know how Muslims will react to the heinous nature of it.

Reread your last sentence and realize that you are saying that you want to release secrets so as to anger Muslims. Now, that's DISTURBING.
BY the way go ahead and pretend that they weren't "already wanting to kill us" and that they weren't already being lied to about us to keep them angry. Now just give them a little "proof" to support their lies with.
oops..ended with a preposition..ignore it if you want but I think it made the meaning more clear.

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"Most people can't think, most of the remainder won't think, the small fraction who do think mostly can't do it very well. The extremely tiny fraction who think regularly, accurately, creatively and without self delusion---In the long run these are the only people that count." ***** Robert Heinlein

I'm waiting for Man Cow or any other person volunteering to be waterboarded to volunteer to have their testicles wired up to electricity & their family jewels jolted.
Or how about using a cigar cutter to cut off a finger & then stop the bleeding by burning it with a cigarette lighter...


No wait --- no one would actually volunteer to be tortured for real.

My son thought his calculus exam was torture.
Oh the horror he must have felt.
He's probably scarred for life.

__________________
"...baseball...It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again." --- Terence Mann (field of dreams)

I think it's torture to see Obama's mug on the cover of TIME magazine every month!

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The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive.
Thomas Jefferson

A GOVERNMENT BIG ENOUGH TO GIVE YOU EVERYTHING YOU WANT, IS BIG ENOUGH TO TAKE AWAY EVERYTHING YOU HAVE Thomas Jefferson

To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson

VIVE LIBERTE'