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The Media Discuss Nyt Rejects Mccain's Editorial; Should 'mirror' Obama at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous I don't think any single man can destroy the country before we get to get ...

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Old 07-22-2008, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Nyt Rejects Mccain's Editorial; Should 'mirror' Obama

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Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous View Post
I don't think any single man can destroy the country before we get to get rid of him in 4 years. However, I do think a drastic shift of the pendulum like say from Bush to Obama could be mildly devastating for a lot of Americans. Not to mention that if the cycle develops a trend of pulling back and forth to frequently, stagnation will occur in our progress because neither side will get anything done for all the wrenching back and forth of control that happens.

I can honestly see a schism...a real deep and dividing schism developing in our country if someone like Obama were elected at this point in history. Were we not about to wrap up a war and there is a world struggle going on of at least as much importance as the Cold War and possibly of the same gravity as the Crusades if we aren't careful, I'd say sure...Obama deserves a shot.

But right now, I don't want a man who has run his campaign and draws his support from insighting emotions in people. "Hope" is not a plan.
Another important part to remember is that Obama would have a majority Congress...

If not, we could have some gridlock from making that pendulum swing so fast...Bush didn't have that problem becaue Clinton wasn't a hardcore-lefty and Bush isn't a hardcore-righty...But that won't happen with a president from the radical left and a Congress willing to do his bidding...The swing won't be mild and millions will be displeased...

Reagan wanted to reinvented America for it was...Obama wants to reinvent America to a new place it's never been before...
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Old 07-22-2008, 10:21 PM
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Default Re: Nyt Rejects Mccain's Editorial; Should 'mirror' Obama

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Another important part to remember is that Obama would have a majority Congress...

If not, we could have some gridlock from making that pendulum swing so fast...Bush didn't have that problem becaue Clinton wasn't a hardcore-lefty and Bush isn't a hardcore-righty...But that won't happen with a president from the radical left and a Congress willing to do his bidding...The swing won't be mild and millions will be displeased...

Reagan wanted to reinvented America for it was...Obama wants to reinvent America to a new place it's never been before...
The democrat congress isn't able to override a filibuster. I'll be glad when the right gets over Nixon. Its like you are bound and determined that a Democrat as POTUS can't have positive results. I really think it hurts the rights legitimate arguments, many of which I agree with when they get hyperbolic over everything that Obama does. I have serious disagreements with Obama. But they don't include some of the silly stuff that people get silly about. I also am starting to think that McCain is making another mistake. First he was goating Obama into what he assumed would be a negative. And now its turned to Obama's favor. He wants to have a town hall with Obama. I think McCain will lose such a match. I like McCain but C'mon.
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Old 07-23-2008, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: Nyt Rejects Mccain's Editorial; Should 'mirror' Obama

Both op-eds took shots at each other.
Primarily to point out differences in their positions.
Comparing their positions is not an attack.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:28 AM
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Default Re: Nyt Rejects Mccain's Editorial; Should 'mirror' Obama

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Both op-eds took shots at each other.
Primarily to point out differences in their positions.
Comparing their positions is not an attack.
I am on shaky ground. I realize that. McCain should be able to say what he wants. I just don't care to hear his critique of Obama. I can't rely on his intentions when he tells me something about Obama. So it just gets real tiring. I am willing to listen to McCain for an hour. But I don't want to only hear him running down his opponent. Tell me your plan Mr. McCain. That's all. I can figure out the rest.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:55 AM
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Default Re: Nyt Rejects Mccain's Editorial; Should 'mirror' Obama

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
I am on shaky ground. I realize that. McCain should be able to say what he wants. I just don't care to hear his critique of Obama. I can't rely on his intentions when he tells me something about Obama. So it just gets real tiring. I am willing to listen to McCain for an hour. But I don't want to only hear him running down his opponent. Tell me your plan Mr. McCain. That's all. I can figure out the rest.
Same here but McCains plans and positions keep changing even faster and more often than Obama's. They both make Kerry look honest and dependable..
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Old 07-23-2008, 10:28 AM
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Default Re: Nyt Rejects Mccain's Editorial; Should 'mirror' Obama

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Same here but McCains plans and positions keep changing even faster and more often than Obama's. They both make Kerry look honest and dependable..
Now McCain has been making a fundamental mistake about the start of "Anbar Awakening" He didn't realize that it started long before the surge began. I new that if he kept this up he would start doing stupid stuff. He needs to relax a bit.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:01 PM
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Default Re: Nyt Rejects Mccain's Editorial; Should 'mirror' Obama

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I am on shaky ground. I realize that. McCain should be able to say what he wants. I just don't care to hear his critique of Obama. I can't rely on his intentions when he tells me something about Obama. So it just gets real tiring. I am willing to listen to McCain for an hour. But I don't want to only hear him running down his opponent. Tell me your plan Mr. McCain. That's all. I can figure out the rest.
But you don't mind Obama giving his opinion/plan with statements like --- "Unlike Senator McCain..." In some cases Obama does nothing but link McCain to Bush which is absurd. While McCain & Bush have agreed on certain things they have disagreed on others & linking them on everything is dishonest.

McCain's plan --- continue occupation until the Iraqi government requests we leave or they have shown the ability to handle their own security. This means to talk with U.S. commanders in Iraq as well as the Iraqi government. If the Iraqi government really believes they can handle their own security then McCain will certainly oblige them with a withdrawal. The fact remains that the surge supported & pushed by McCain has worked making the debate over withdrawal possible.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:13 PM
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Default Re: Nyt Rejects Mccain's Editorial; Should 'mirror' Obama

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Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post
But you don't mind Obama giving his opinion/plan with statements like --- "Unlike Senator McCain..." In some cases Obama does nothing but link McCain to Bush which is absurd. While McCain & Bush have agreed on certain things they have disagreed on others & linking them on everything is dishonest.

McCain's plan --- continue occupation until the Iraqi government requests we leave or they have shown the ability to handle their own security. This means to talk with U.S. commanders in Iraq as well as the Iraqi government. If the Iraqi government really believes they can handle their own security then McCain will certainly oblige them with a withdrawal. The fact remains that the surge supported & pushed by McCain has worked making the debate over withdrawal possible.
There were several factors. But McCain has his mind stuck on "I was right and Obama was wrong" It ain't that simple. And he is counting on the fact that nobody will actually look in to the facts surrounding the decrease in violence. But for those who understand it there were several factors. He needs to relax a bit. He is attacking Obama all the time as a substitute for new idea. I think McCain is getting frustrated by a perceived media bias. So he is lashing out. Its getting boring to watch him do this at every speech. And its just exactly the kind of thing he said he wouldn't be doing if nominated. I am actually starting to understand why the Bush team hit McCain so hard when they ran against him. Its because he uses that bipartisan crap to get his foot in the door. But then he bites you. He and Lieberman make a good team.
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Old 07-23-2008, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Nyt Rejects Mccain's Editorial; Should 'mirror' Obama

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There were several factors. But McCain has his mind stuck on "I was right and Obama was wrong" It ain't that simple. And he is counting on the fact that nobody will actually look in to the facts surrounding the decrease in violence. But for those who understand it there were several factors. He needs to relax a bit. He is attacking Obama all the time as a substitute for new idea. I think McCain is getting frustrated by a perceived media bias. So he is lashing out. Its getting boring to watch him do this at every speech. And its just exactly the kind of thing he said he wouldn't be doing if nominated. I am actually starting to understand why the Bush team hit McCain so hard when they ran against him. Its because he uses that bipartisan crap to get his foot in the door. But then he bites you. He and Lieberman make a good team.
The media bias is not PERCEIVED. It's there.
I do agree that McCain is spending too much time lashing out.
However, hammering home the fact that the surge supported & pushed by McCain & opposed by Obama & still a denial that it worked should be a apart of speeches by McCain. It just shouldn't be the whole speech.
A new idea sounds like you want McCain to change his opinion.
Obama had a new idea concerning the surge --- don't do it --- he was wrong.
McCain doesn't need a new idea; he just needs to articulate his plan a little better.
Plus, McCain should point out that when the dems swept into congress they were promising an end to the war. They failed to do what they promised. And, Obama has been a part of that failed promise; while McCain pushed for a successful tactic in Iraq. The one that has made talks of withdrawal possible. Of course there were many factors --- even pointing out some of them while highlighting his past speeches where he pushed for this tactic would be more helpful than just attacking his opponent.
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Old 07-23-2008, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Nyt Rejects Mccain's Editorial; Should 'mirror' Obama

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Originally Posted by Gordon Shumway View Post
The media bias is not PERCEIVED. It's there.
I do agree that McCain is spending too much time lashing out.
However, hammering home the fact that the surge supported & pushed by McCain & opposed by Obama & still a denial that it worked should be a apart of speeches by McCain. It just shouldn't be the whole speech.
A new idea sounds like you want McCain to change his opinion.
Obama had a new idea concerning the surge --- don't do it --- he was wrong.
McCain doesn't need a new idea; he just needs to articulate his plan a little better.
Plus, McCain should point out that when the dems swept into congress they were promising an end to the war. They failed to do what they promised. And, Obama has been a part of that failed promise; while McCain pushed for a successful tactic in Iraq. The one that has made talks of withdrawal possible. Of course there were many factors --- even pointing out some of them while highlighting his past speeches where he pushed for this tactic would be more helpful than just attacking his opponent.
I stand corrected as far as the Perceived comment goes. I think we all know that we are going to be winding our mission in Iraq down soon. I think McCain deserves some credit for some of his stance against Rummy for example. And if it were not for things like that we might still be dealing with a complete mess. So its good to have McCain right where he is. In congress.

We are going to have to disagree on the cause of reduced violence. Either way its down and we need to leave and finish or mission in Afghanistan. We are choking from the costs of Iraq. We can't afford to fool around. It costs millions every day. The administration doesn't want to leave. And when we find out what they have spent money on in Iraq you can't blame them. Olympic sized swimming pools, etc.
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