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The Media Discuss FOX Pundit Wishes for Obama Assassination, Laughs at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by dabateman Conspiracy nuts are going to believe what they want to believe. My analysis will neither encourage ...

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Old 05-26-2008, 08:10 PM
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Default Re: FOX Pundit Wishes for Obama Assassination, Laughs

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
Conspiracy nuts are going to believe what they want to believe. My analysis will neither encourage nor deter them. You, like the left wing media you want to indict, are making a mountain out of a molehill.
I'm actually trying to quelch the allegation made, and by your admission, there's no proof of...

Read the article's statement that I have problem with...

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Since Sen. Obama first declared his intention to seek the Democratic nomination for president, right-wing pundits on FOX News and a variety of other broadcast outlets have regularly called the Sen. Obama by the name "Osama" in a systematic propaganda campaign to convince the American public that a sitting member of their government has secret ties to terrorists.
Somehow I don't think they're working on that same "98/2 unlikely" thinking...
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: FOX Pundit Wishes for Obama Assassination, Laughs

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
I'm actually trying to quelch the allegation made, and by your admission, there's no proof of...

Read the article's statement that I have problem with...

Somehow I don't think they're working on that same "98/2 unlikely" thinking...
Right, and I dismiss the article as unlikely. What more do you want? They have the right to review the facts and present them in a manner they find to be consistent. News sources do this all the time. That is why there is a term in the Christian Right media called the "Gay Agenda". Same 98/2 unlikely pattern but the journalistic abuse continues.
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: FOX Pundit Wishes for Obama Assassination, Laughs

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
Right, and I dismiss the article as unlikely. What more do you want? They have the right to review the facts and present them in a manner they find to be consistent.
And I have a right to dissent...Isn't that part of what forums are for?...

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
News sources do this all the time. That is why there is a term in the Christian Right media called the "Gay Agenda". Same 98/2 unlikely pattern but the journalistic abuse continues.
Probably true, but I don't put the "Christian Right media" in the same ballpark as The Huffington Post in terms of mainstream population and how they're termed as credible....
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: FOX Pundit Wishes for Obama Assassination, Laughs

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
And I have a right to dissent...Isn't that part of what forums are for?...

Probably true, but I don't put the "Christian Right media" in the same ballpark as The Huffington Post in terms of mainstream population and how they're termed as credible....
Now that might be an argument to make...
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Old 05-27-2008, 12:42 PM
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Post Re: FOX Pundit Wishes for Obama Assassination, Laughs

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Your missing the point...again...
You (and the author of the article) are preaching "B" and using "A" as an example...
IS THERE a propaganda campaign against Obama?...Sure...Just like there is against any other candidate or politician...Big whoopty-whoop...
But why is that mentioned in an article where someone screwed up "Obama" and "Osama"?...They are two totally separate issues (unless you think the names were screwed up intentionally, and although I find Media Matters stupid, you I don't.)...
I have no doubts that "screw ups" can exist.
Some, on the left and the right, are non-intentional screw-ups.

However, there are some that are NOT screw-ups, but part of a purposeful campaign to associate Barack with Islam, "Hussein", and "Osama".
The first two are iron-clad, essentially irrefutable fact.

I cannot fathom how you cannot acknowledge the last exists as well.
SOME people who throw out "Osama" are NOT doing it on accident.
Furthermore, when this woman JOKES about killing them both???
Come ON.
That HAS to be a glaring red flag, and I think you KNOW it's a glaring red flag cause it's an aspect I keep bringing up and you refuse to address.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd
I've shown where the Left has screwed his name up also, and I'm sorry, but I'm not going to sit here and believe the "If the Left screws it up, it's OK, but if the Right does, then it's not" attitude...
That shield is right up there with the old "If you're black, you can say it, but if you're white, you're a racist bastard." line...
Ahhh.
I think I see where I have not been clear, cause you're not really talking about my position at all.

This has been ONE INCIDENT.
And I have expressly pointed out this ONE incident is part of a BIGGER issue.

But I should make clear that does not mean that there are not other examples of "Osama / Obama" (on the right and the left) where it is NOT part of an anti-Obama campaign.

To use your example, it's not just a cause where "you're white, you're a racist".
This woman EXPRESSLY STATED a "joke" about killing Obama.
Going a step further in the analogy, it would be like a white person not only saying something that COULD be racist, but then ADDING ON a comment about eating watermelon or similar racist nonsense.

It's NOT just the ONE thing.
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:06 PM
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Default Re: FOX Pundit Wishes for Obama Assassination, Laughs

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Originally Posted by Spencer Collins View Post
FOX Pundit Wishes for Obama Assassination, Laughs
............
YouTube - Fox News Jokes About Killing Obama..........

The Osama/Obama routine is getting a bit old and in my view inappropriate..
Maybe we should rethink our laws on free speech or at least have a new clear interpretation of "clear and present danger....." Limiting the Limitations on Political Speech
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Limiting the Limitations on Political Speech
by Zeev Segal

The assassination of the late Israeli Prime Minister, Yitzhak Rabin, was not just the killing of a nation's political leader. The assassination brought an end to a firm belief that hate speech and hate propaganda could never lead to such an act of violence by one Jewish person against another. Nonetheless, Yegal Amir currently stands trial in Tel-Aviv for the assassination.

The probable connection between hate statements which were made by religious leaders who viewed the prime minister's policy destructive of all Jewish values, and the assassination has sharpened the debate over free political speech versus the right of democracy to defend itself.

Israel is deeply committed to fundamental human liberties, even in the absence of a comprehensive written constitution and an entrenched Bill of Rights. In the landmark decision Kol Ha'am in the 1950s, as justification for limiting speech, the Israeli Supreme Court introduced into the legal system standards for freedom of speech similar to the American standard "clear and present danger". In the 1989 Schnizer case, Justice Aharon Barak adopted the American "near certainty" test to annul a military censor's decision to prevent publication of an article that dealt with the functioning of the Israeli Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency. The "near certainty" test, which prevailed in the United States in the 1950s, requires that there be a probable, material harm that flows from the speech. The degree of probability required is high, even if the serious danger expected should not necessarily be immediate.

Following such Israeli Supreme Court decisions, the "free market of ideas," which in the language of Justice Holmes is essential to democracy, continues to flourish in Israel. The opportunity for free and open debate exists in spite of valid legislation hostile to freedom of speech. The policy adopted for many years by the State's prosecution refrained from instituting legal criminal proceedings when speech was involved. Such a policy reflected tolerance toward intolerance. It enabled inflammatory speech to become part and parcel of our daily public life. Publications -- in newspapers, demonstrations, etc. -- even when containing incitement to racism, were met with little law enforcement.

Israel's deep respect for freedom of speech concurs with the European Convention on Human Rights. Article 10 of the Convention allows limitations on freedom of expression only where they are prescribed by law and are "necessary in a democratic society," inter alia for "national security" or "public safety" or "the protection of morals . . . or the rights of others."

In the 1994 case of Jersild v. Denmark, the European Court of Human Rights for the first time addressed the difficult questions of whether and how far free expression should be limited when the content of the political expression is of a racist nature. The Jersild case arose following the broadcast of a television program by the applicant, a journalist. It consisted of an interview with three youth who made extremely abusive and derogatory remarks about ethnic groups in Denmark including the assertion that blacks and other immigrants were not human beings. Following the broadcast, the applicant was convicted of having aided in the dissemination of racist remarks. Limiting the Limitations on Political Speech
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Old 05-27-2008, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: FOX Pundit Wishes for Obama Assassination, Laughs

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Maybe we should rethink our laws on free speech or at least have a new clear interpretation of "clear and present danger....."
I would be reluctant to tamper with free speech,like most Americans I hold free speech in high reguard.I was just reviewing "again" the Skokie case.While that case may not deal directly with the this thread there are some similarities at least in broad theory.Political rhetoric can be very offensive and perhaps dangerous.This is not a new phenomina,political rhetoric was very abusive shortly after the birth of our nation.This does not mean that antything goes,or that dangerous political rhetoric should be excused due to precedent.Should hate speech and assassination speech be protected under the First Amendment? I think that depends on "what" was said. Was it satire or off the cuff political commentary or was it something far more sinister?If the speech was conspiritorial,we have existing laws that should cover that.

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Old 05-27-2008, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: FOX Pundit Wishes for Obama Assassination, Laughs

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Originally Posted by Spencer Collins View Post
I would be reluctant to tamper with free speech,like most Americans I hold free speech in high reguard.I was just reviewing "again" the Skokie case.While that case may not deal directly with the this thread there are some similarities at least in broad theory.Political rhetoric can be very offensive and perhaps dangerous.This is not a new phenomina,political rhetoric was very abusive shortly after the birth of our nation.This does not mean that antything goes,or that dangerous political rhetoric should be excused due to precedent.Should hate speech and assassination speech be protected under the First Amendment? I think that depends on "what" was said. Was it satire or off the cuff political commentary or was it something far more sinister?If the speech was conspiritorial,we have existing laws that should cover that.

When the Nazis Came to Skokie
And common sense prevails once again.
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Consumption is indeed important in a free economy: particularly the freedom of consumers to buy their goods in unhampered markets. However, key to long-term economic growth is investment (savings), which is the opposite of consumption. Public policies that promote consumption — such as low interest rates — do so at the expense of savings. Less savings means less investments; an economy that does not save or invest will consume all of its resources and eventually end up bankrupt.-David Saied
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