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Local Politics Discuss Albuquerque mayor: Hereís a crazy idea, letís give homeless people jobs at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by jimbo In most cases, no it doesn't. In many cases it does the opposite. Putting people on ...

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Old 08-06-2019, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: Albuquerque mayor: Hereís a crazy idea, letís give homeless people jobs

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
In most cases, no it doesn't. In many cases it does the opposite.

Putting people on food stamps doesn't make people go look for work. It enables people to eat without not working.

Putting people on welfare doesn't make people want to better themselves. In most cases it gives them a reason not to bother.
At 19 years old, my boss at the bank was a guy named Walter Howell...a black man who, I'm guessing, was about 376 years old...Nicest man in the world...Your lives are worse off because you've never met him...

He was 1 of 9 children...He told me both parents worked two jobs to make ends meet...He said, and I'm quoting, "They were TOO PROUD to go on welfare."...

...and I'm worse off for never meeting his parents...Two people I respect the HELL out of...
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Old 08-07-2019, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: Albuquerque mayor: Hereís a crazy idea, letís give homeless people jobs

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
At 19 years old, my boss at the bank was a guy named Walter Howell...a black man who, I'm guessing, was about 376 years old...Nicest man in the world...Your lives are worse off because you've never met him...

He was 1 of 9 children...He told me both parents worked two jobs to make ends meet...He said, and I'm quoting, "They were TOO PROUD to go on welfare."...

...and I'm worse off for never meeting his parents...Two people I respect the HELL out of...
there is a myth that homeless people don't want to work. some are elderly, some have mental problems, addiction, or had their rent raised one too many times. And yes some do work already. this is not the country your friend's parents grew up in.
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:47 AM
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Default Re: Albuquerque mayor: Hereís a crazy idea, letís give homeless people jobs

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
The preamble to the Constitution declare....to Provide for the general welfareÖ. That should not be interpreted to mean "Generally provide Welfare"

And yet, that is what the left proposes to salve all societal ills. If we should have learned anything since the time of FDR, that concept simply does not work. Only,,,; WE HAVEN"T LEARNED IT!!!


It is time to stop blaming societal ills on the government. It is time to blame them on the individuals who are, in so many cases, the cause of their own conditions and should be held accountable for the problem.

There are more than enough safety net resources out their to hand most people a leg up from their situation. The numbers of homeless are not growing due to a lack of opportunities and resources to turn their lives around. The numbers are growing because there is so much more money available to subsidize their poor decisions.

Add a system of one size fits all and before long you have a whole class of lower caste people satisfied with their condition. No one, who is able bodied, should be hungry and without shelter because the are unwilling to work. And yet they exist here in America by the tens of thousands.

Why? Seems to me one of the best and most efficient ways to redistribute our nation's wealth is by redistributing it's work. America IS a strong and vibrant nation. There is plenty to do, and plenty of government money to pay for it.

I say, stop finding villains to blame. Let's get started.
Very sell stated, especially the bold'd paragraph.
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Old 08-07-2019, 05:51 AM
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Default Re: Albuquerque mayor: Hereís a crazy idea, letís give homeless people jobs

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
I never said that the left had the solution.
my point is at least some on the left sincerely try to help. even if if the effort is a failure.
personally I give points for trying. rather than sitting on the sideline scoffing.
And that is the problem. It has been demonstrated time and again that simply throwing government money at a problem hardly ever fixes the problem and just creates new problems that require yet more money. It's a never ending cycle. But too many people give the left "credit" for good intentions. How about we start holding these people accountable for RESULTS?

The El Paso shooter had what he considered "good intentions". Do you suggest we give him credit for his actions?
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Old 08-07-2019, 06:41 AM
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Default Re: Albuquerque mayor: Hereís a crazy idea, letís give homeless people jobs

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
And that is the problem. It has been demonstrated time and again that simply throwing government money at a problem hardly ever fixes the problem and just creates new problems that require yet more money. It's a never ending cycle. But too many people give the left "credit" for good intentions. How about we start holding these people accountable for RESULTS?
the Albuquerque NM program is not "throwing money" at the problem.
but every conservative here attacked it blindly.
WHY?

And Yes we should hold all programs accountable for results. Absolutely.
And learn from the efforts as to what works and what doesn't.
rather than ASSUME that EVERY attempt is by default a complete failure and 100% counter productive..

Cnereed mentions an able bodied family to proud to go on welfare. that's great.
I know a woman that's worked 30+ years at low wage jobs. Never drinks, never took drugs, never smoked. She ran into multiple medical problems. Leaving her unable to drive, unable to walk very far or very long or speak clearly. Since then, from home, she's stuffed envelopes and folded flyers, and worked scammy online jobs from an old computer given her... with arthritis in both hands... to try and make money.. She has no children.

She takes food stamps to help cover her expenses in that area. Relatives, friends and church have helped her on occasion as well.
She's not in a "cycle" she's legitimately in need.
and the gov't program is in fact benefiting her.
Not all people who use them are freeloaders.
Accountability is PERFECT.
But knee-jerk wholesale REJECTION of all gov't assistants programs becasue of problems and bad actors is just cynicism and overkill.
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Last edited by mr wonder; 08-07-2019 at 06:47 AM..
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: Albuquerque mayor: Hereís a crazy idea, letís give homeless people jobs

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
the Albuquerque NM program is not "throwing money" at the problem.
but every conservative here attacked it blindly.
WHY?

And Yes we should hold all programs accountable for results. Absolutely.
And learn from the efforts as to what works and what doesn't.
rather than ASSUME that EVERY attempt is by default a complete failure and 100% counter productive..

Cnereed mentions an able bodied family to proud to go on welfare. that's great.
I know a woman that's worked 30+ years at low wage jobs. Never drinks, never took drugs, never smoked. She ran into multiple medical problems. Leaving her unable to drive, unable to walk very far or very long or speak clearly. Since then, from home, she's stuffed envelopes and folded flyers, and worked scammy online jobs from an old computer given her... with arthritis in both hands... to try and make money.. She has no children.

She takes food stamps to help cover her expenses in that area. Relatives, friends and church have helped her on occasion as well.
She's not in a "cycle" she's legitimately in need.
and the gov't program is in fact benefiting her.
Not all people who use them are freeloaders.
Accountability is PERFECT.
But knee-jerk wholesale REJECTION of all gov't assistants programs becasue of problems and bad actors is just cynicism and overkill.
I brought it up briefly, but personal involvement, giving of yourself quite often is more of a boon to those in need than a check from the government, or an organization, or even the church.

When someone is disabled, run errands for them, or take them somewhere they need to go.
When someone is down on their luck, buy groceries for them, and deliver them.
When someone doesn't have a winter coat, give them one.
When someone can't find a babysitter so they can go to work, help them find someone, or if you can, babysit yourself.
For the homeless, bring them food, clothing, water, personal needs. Not just at Thanksgiving or Christmas. Not just donations at Goodwill, but personal involvement.

It's what is lost in the 'throw the money at it' routine of this current society. The personal acknowledgement of a fellow human.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: Albuquerque mayor: Hereís a crazy idea, letís give homeless people jobs

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
the Albuquerque NM program is not "throwing money" at the problem.
but every conservative here attacked it blindly.
WHY?
The program involves providing jobs for these people. One would assume that if a person has a job they have a reasonable expectation of receiving compensation in the form of US dollars for their labor. Where are the funds coming from to provide the compensation?

While I do not watch Salty's drive by posted videos, it would appear that the Mayor is proposing creating jobs for these people by using tax dollars to pay for them. That is the definition of throwing money at the problem.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
And Yes we should hold all programs accountable for results. Absolutely.
And learn from the efforts as to what works and what doesn't.
rather than ASSUME that EVERY attempt is by default a complete failure and 100% counter productive..

Cnereed mentions an able bodied family to proud to go on welfare. that's great.
I know a woman that's worked 30+ years at low wage jobs. Never drinks, never took drugs, never smoked. She ran into multiple medical problems. Leaving her unable to drive, unable to walk very far or very long or speak clearly. Since then, from home, she's stuffed envelopes and folded flyers, and worked scammy online jobs from an old computer given her... with arthritis in both hands... to try and make money.. She has no children.

She takes food stamps to help cover her expenses in that area. Relatives, friends and church have helped her on occasion as well.
She's not in a "cycle" she's legitimately in need.
and the gov't program is in fact benefiting her.
Not all people who use them are freeloaders.
Accountability is PERFECT.
But knee-jerk wholesale REJECTION of all gov't assistants programs becasue of problems and bad actors is just cynicism and overkill.
Great, you know someone that works hard and needs help. I know people in similar situations. However, that is anecdotal evidence that does nothing to prove the worth/waste/abuse of such programs, it is merely an example to support your point of view. I could post hundreds of examples of waste and fraud for every feel good story you post.

In short, I am not against helping those in need. However, it is a problem that the Federal Government should stay out of. Leave it to local communities to do on a case by case basis. I would propose to gradually phase out Federal Funding of social programs and allow that money to stay in the communities. Encourage charitable giving to allow local charities, churches or other groups to do the job of caring for those in need in their communities. To me, that makes for sense than the one size fits all approach of the Fed Gov't.
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Old 08-07-2019, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: Albuquerque mayor: Hereís a crazy idea, letís give homeless people jobs

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
the Albuquerque NM program is not "throwing money" at the problem.
but every conservative here attacked it blindly.
WHY?

.
In your effort to vilify the "right," you have conflated the facts which have been presented.
You call it blindness. I call that political ignorance.


The Mayor's idea was to "give them jobs." That was criticized by the right for it's lack of originality (as inferred by the OP) and it's futility.

As for throwing money at the problem, those were completely different arguments about failed solutions. As we have seen in the example of Baltimore, billions of dollars thrown at the problem, have not alleviated the problem.

My question to you sir is how do we propose to "give" away jobs without someone picking up the cost of giving jobs to people who have done nothing to "earn" them.

First, where do these jobs come from? The city, private business?
Second who pays to transport these homeless to their work sites?
Third who pays for the rehab programs to get drug users clean enough to do work? Clean of drugs and hygienically clean enough to be employed.
Fourth, does the tax payer foot the bill for new clothes and supplies?
Fifth, assuming a program works, who pays to clean up the trash and debris currently being created?


The list of needs goes on and on, So, yes, the taxpayer will have to throw money at the problem. To suggest other wise indicates a serious lack of understanding. An affliction you have placed squarely on the shoulders of the ignorant. Since the "right" has pointed all of this out, are we to assume the left is ignorant?

I have known men and women who were living out of their car with kids. I have seen whole families doing so. I have hired them, helped them get a place to live and once back on their feet seen them leave my employ for better opportunities. Glad to see them step up.

They earned that right when they reliably got out of bed and showed up for work. These are good people who had a bad event.

But we are not talking about those citizens. We are talking about people who embark on a lifestyle where in they setup tent communities on the sidewalks. And then proceed to litter those side walks and streets with spent hypodermic needles and feces. AKA Squatters. These chronically unemployables survive on welfare, food pantries and pan handling. They are trapped, not by the faults of our society, but often by their substance abuse,,,; or their laziness.


To turn this around will not come from giving them access to free anything. Including jobs they didn't earn.
No matter the outcome, we the people will have to pay for it.
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