Right? Why can't we just keep the good parts of eugenics?
Oh, yeah: because there are no good parts.
Eugenics programs belong in Germany, circa 1939, not in the US, circa now.

I think we can agree here.

By the way, with guidance, I think a lot of mentally challenged people can be fine parents. The cases where I support involuntary sterilization are fairly rare and fairly extreme.

Not always.

Some years ago I came upon some thugs amusing themselves by beating a gay couple on a dark street. The presence of a witness appearing seemed to cause them to remember important engagements elsewhere.

I think those fellows were rather like livestock: in need of branding and castration, possibly butchering. Or so I felt at the moment.

And, if you'd grown up in farm country, you might agree that seeing people pass in their thousands through turnstiles for a sporting event is quite reminiscent of feeding time at the dairy.

Saying that people are like livestock sometimes may be a very harsh criticism, true, it may even be contemptuous. But sometimes, it's just a wry acknowledgement of what it is to be Human.

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“Quod scripsi, scripsi"

"Sometimes, the source of the beautiful dawning light that drives back the darkness, is your house burning"

The problem is that in those rare cases there are no good answers. Giving the government the power to make those decisions makes those cases less and less rare, moving from cases of true need into cases of merely undesirable.

I think it's a bit offensive because humans, unless in a vegetative state, have the potential for growth and development that livestock can never attain.

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How can actions that are wrong lead to a greater good? - Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek)

So go back to my example above. Two people who have a genetic disorder that will get passed on to their kids and who are severely mentally retarded. They like sex, but aren't responsible enough to manage birth control. They have had mutliple children who have all carried the same genetic defect that they have. They don't understand that sex leads to children and they have no emotional connection to their children. Tell me what harm would come about by stopping them from having any more children, but still allowing them to enjoy each other sexually??? I understand that this kind of thing can be abused, but we can put checks in place to assure that there is oversight and standards. I know people who are mentally handicapped who are great parents, but in this case, this couple is completely incapable of parenting. They can't even cook, clean or take care of themselves for most daily functions, so raising a child would be impossible for them to say the least.

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Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

Leftists and very small children don't seem to be able to understand that the Government isn't there to "fix" the economy, anymore than a tick is there to fix your dog.~Oftencold

FS, I understand your point. Hell, I even agree philosophically with your point, but the problem comes with the government doing it. You talk about standards and oversight, but we had all that before. We had that before and abused it. Not just abused it a little to where borderline cases were sniped, but abused it to a point that the courts had to finally step in to end it. And while some love the courts and others revile the courts, the courts are still a slow and inefficient means of protecting the rights of citizens.

Having a handful of these sad cases is sadly preferable than risking the rights of many many more.

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How can actions that are wrong lead to a greater good? - Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek)

How many people living crippled lives of endless misery makes a handful?

__________________
“Quod scripsi, scripsi"

"Sometimes, the source of the beautiful dawning light that drives back the darkness, is your house burning"

Seriously - how? It seems when it comes to human rights of undesirable groups of people the frequently get violated. Often, they don't vote, they aren't an important political block and their only advocates might be their families. The Eugenics Commission in NC wasn't abolished until 1977 - that's when I graduated highschool. Among the people involuntarily sterilized were poor women and single mothers, young girls who were deemed "promiscuous". 1970's isn't that long ago. Would you honestly trust a government agency with that kind of power?

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From your very assertion they don't even know they are miserable. So I reject your suggestion that they are. Pick a position and own it.

I also believe that you are aware that the number of mentally ill that would meet your standard for forced sterilization, is exceedingly small.

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How can actions that are wrong lead to a greater good? - Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek)

What you reject, is common sense and reality. Remember, I am engaged in the provision of medical care. I probably know a bit more about this topic than ye. Yes, genetically burdened children often live miserable lives.

Why don't you find a pediatric surgeon who works with the indigent and who is comfortable discussing such things with you them them if they have opinions about this issue ? I expect the conversation would be most enlightening for you.

Why yes, I do. I'm happy about that. What was your point? Were you suggesting that more should be sterilized?

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“Quod scripsi, scripsi"

"Sometimes, the source of the beautiful dawning light that drives back the darkness, is your house burning"

How about the head of pediatric surgery of a research hospital? She said that it's absurd to think that the children cannot live happy lives. It's absurd to think that they are miserable. She points out that children are resilient and it comes down to a matter of perception.

I'm suggesting that the problem you describe is exceedingly small. The number who would fit your criteria.

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How can actions that are wrong lead to a greater good? - Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek)