Originally Posted by faithful_servant

Just out of curiosity:
I know a couple that BOTH have a genetic condition that has caused them to both be severely mentally handicapped. They have three kids who ALL have the same handicap and they have all been removed from their parent's home because their parents are completely incapable of raising them. The parents barely even know that the kids are gone, much less miss them. Now, they are pregnant again and the child will be born with the same condition (prenatal tests have confirmed this). This couple has enough going on mentally to like sex, but don't understand that it leads to kids.
Should they be allowed to have more kids or should someone step in and stop this??

Originally Posted by Coyote

Everyone has the same constitutional rights of freedom and liberty - whether they are a "burden" or not. I am not always comfortable with the inability to help people who badly need it but don't want it...but once you start deciding who is and who is not allowed to have those rights, you open the door to abuse. Historically there is plenty of precedent - forced sterilization, forced lobotomies (even on children who were just unruly), forced institutionalization in horrible conditions - even if only because you were a woman who did not submit to her menfolk.

The problem is that rights should not be dependent on cuteness, cleanliness, or whether a particular group has a cute poster child - they exist for everyone.



I agree we need to change some things and one of the worst things that happened (and is still happening) is the massive de-institutionalization movement without providing the funding or support within communities to help or follow up on the people released. That has been a great tragedy.

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

Just out of curiosity:
I know a couple that BOTH have a genetic condition that has caused them to both be severely mentally handicapped. They have three kids who ALL have the same handicap and they have all been removed from their parent's home because their parents are completely incapable of raising them. The parents barely even know that the kids are gone, much less miss them. Now, they are pregnant again and the child will be born with the same condition (prenatal tests have confirmed this). This couple has enough going on mentally to like sex, but don't understand that it leads to kids.
Should they be allowed to have more kids or should someone step in and stop this??

Originally Posted by Oftencold

Now you don't have forced sterilization, forced lobotomies, both of which I support in some very limited cases, you have insane people wandering the streets with lice, open sores, being robbed and murdered. and dying of exposure. That's progress!

Originally Posted by Oftencold

Stories like this come up in the Medical Community, but of course, if one comes out for forced sterilization, one is considered a defacto criminal.

Modern "thinking" tells us that no amount of suffering on the part of offspring can ever trump the right of mentally deficient people to produce such children and suffering.

By the way, don't think that this stops with the parent's generation. If the children can possibly breed, somebody will champion their right to do so. Probably the champions will include the Courts.

Originally Posted by Coyote

There's no easy answers.

Originally Posted by Coyote

What situations would advocate forced lobotomies? Political poopheads?

Originally Posted by Oftencold

That is one of the main Truths that tends to lead people to Conservatism. You might want to read Thomas Sowell's book The Vision of the Anointed for a fascinating essay on the topic.



As an alternative to execution primarily.

Originally Posted by Coyote

Part of the problem is that "forced sterilization" in theory could work maybe but in practice it rapidly becomes an abusive way to get rid of "undesirables". People were forceably sterilized for no more reason than they were poor or truant or disabled - irrespective of their parenting abilities.

Originally Posted by Coyote

Everyone has the same constitutional rights of freedom and liberty - whether they are a "burden" or not. I am not always comfortable with the inability to help people who badly need it but don't want it...but once you start deciding who is and who is not allowed to have those rights, you open the door to abuse. Historically there is plenty of precedent - forced sterilization, forced lobotomies (even on children who were just unruly), forced institutionalization in horrible conditions - even if only because you were a woman who did not submit to her menfolk.

The problem is that rights should not be dependent on cuteness, cleanliness, or whether a particular group has a cute poster child - they exist for everyone.