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Law & Order Discuss Cops raid wrong home, humiliate naked woman, attempt to keep video secret at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by mr wonder Shouldn't the reporters all get the benefit of the doubt AZ? instead of accusing them ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2021, 10:41 AM
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Default Re: Cops raid wrong home, humiliate naked woman, attempt to keep video secret

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Shouldn't the reporters all get the benefit of the doubt AZ? instead of accusing them of being part of a Marxist, blm mob and smearing all police . Even though you read the article it doesn't mean that they had that intent. Maybe their was a good journalistic reason they left out what you ( NOT being a professional reporter) thought should be there. Until there's a FULL investigation we have to assume they were just doing their jobs. They are innocent until proven guilty AZ. What you think you read or saw with your own eye's does not count.
If we apply you're logic to the journalist instead of the police.


Also it seem that the supposed Marxist, BLM and critical theory mob police smears () that you divine out of the news report is what upsets you far more than 9 cops breaking into an innocents person's home handcuffing her holding naked woman for nearly an hour.
Have the poor sensitive police suffered emotional trauma or physical harm or property damage because of the news report AZ?
And seems clear to me the police DO have the FULL Protection of the police higher ups, the union, the courts and the city system.

Unlike an innocent woman in her home on any given night.

But AZ, I'm still looking for the police reforms you said you're for.
what i see in your reply is more unlicensed handwaving 'legal' defense of police and their reputations. And your even putting the blame of the crime onto "the prosecutor and the judge issuing the warrant or the apparently shoddy investigative work by detectives." And that before any FULL investigation. Shouldn't they all get the benefit of the doubt AZ?

It looks like the only group want to assign FULL INNOCENCE to are the police that are on video committing the crimes.
Everyone else you have a gripe against and lay blame on except them.
Wait, is the same person insisting the police have an obligation to make certain they get their investigation and search warrant right, that they assume anyone they find in the house is Mother Theresa now requiring we give the propagandists posing as reporters the benefit of a doubt? The same reporters that claim police are engaged in a campaign of terror and that they are criminals. The same reporters that claim police will not be held accountable before investigations are completed. But the decision to downplay the role of the prosecutor and judge in the fiasco as well as omitting mention of the 3 ongoing investigations was made strictly out of noble journalistic standards it just coincidental the facts would undercut the lynch mob narrative.

Again, it's very likely the officers serving the warrant weren't conducting the investigation that led up to the search warrant application. They certainly weren't responsible for prosecutor's failure to vet the warrant information or the judge's negligence in evaluating the sufficiency of probable cause. But that can all be ignored because we aren't prosecutors or judges or investigators, right?

Objecting to the lynching of the officers executing the warrant while ignoring the possible culpability of other actors is not the same as excusing them from all blame. Making conclusions or debating "reforms" based of the polemics in the OP is a fools errand.
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Old 08-08-2021, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: Cops raid wrong home, humiliate naked woman, attempt to keep video secret

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Wait, is the same person insisting the police have an obligation to make certain they get their investigation and search warrant right, that they assume anyone they find in the house is Mother Theresa now requiring we give the propagandists posing as reporters the benefit of a doubt? The same reporters that claim police are engaged in a campaign of terror and that they are criminals. The same reporters that claim police will not be held accountable before investigations are completed. But the decision to downplay the role of the prosecutor and judge in the fiasco as well as omitting mention of the 3 ongoing investigations was made strictly out of noble journalistic standards it just coincidental the facts would undercut the lynch mob narrative.

Again, it's very likely the officers serving the warrant weren't conducting the investigation that led up to the search warrant application. They certainly weren't responsible for prosecutor's failure to vet the warrant information or the judge's negligence in evaluating the sufficiency of probable cause. But that can all be ignored because we aren't prosecutors or judges or investigators, right?

Objecting to the lynching of the officers executing the warrant while ignoring the possible culpability of other actors is not the same as excusing them from all blame. Making conclusions or debating "reforms" based of the polemics in the OP is a fools errand.
"the lynching of the officers", that is, harsh words are something equal to being literally handcuffed naked or shot dead or killed by a knee on the neck.
i see.

And where are your suggestions for police reform again?
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Old 08-10-2021, 10:07 AM
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Default Re: Cops raid wrong home, humiliate naked woman, attempt to keep video secret

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
"the lynching of the officers", that is, harsh words are something equal to being literally handcuffed naked or shot dead or killed by a knee on the neck.
i see.

And where are your suggestions for police reform again?
Tell the thousands of business owners who who had their livelihood destroyed by so-called mostly peaceful protesters calling for lynching the police their suffering is nothing compared to police abuses. Tell the loved ones of the retired police captain in Kansas City shot down and left to bleed out like a dog by thugs given free reign by the anti police lynch mob it's nothing compared to police abuse. Tell the thousands of mostly black victims families in Chicago in the midst of skyrocketing crime the real danger is the police criminals.

Sorry, I refuse to join the lynch mob demanding reducing the police to an impotent vestigial organization under the guise of reform. In Chicago the defund the police zealots like the ones that wrote the OP succeeded in getting the police budget slashed and convinced cowardly politicians they ought to undercut the police at every turn. The result has been rampant crime including murder for which the reformers take no responsibility.

That's not to say there is not a need for reform in policing but it has to be a sober process where information is gathered and analyzed to produce recommendations for meaningful reforms not the rantings of radical Leftists with a Red Queen like approach of verdict first then investigate.

By the way, what happened to the officer who put his knee on the neck? Zero accountability right? Of course the residents and merchants in the cop free zone around the memorial to the victim are suffering from a crime wave but it's all just the price of reform.
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Old 08-10-2021, 11:15 AM
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Default Re: Cops raid wrong home, humiliate naked woman, attempt to keep video secret

AZRWinger, I know you are responding primarily to mister wonder.

But...

How many of the points in post 4 would you support for police reform?

I would add...

8. Police in general should if anything receive more funding, not less.

I want to say, while I think that the police's behavior in this case was abysmal and that they should be held responsible for that behavior, I do not support what seems to be a growing vendetta against the police.

I do NOT believe police are inherently racist.

I do think if you do not police the community you see an increase in crime.

The same principle holds true for police. If you do not hold them accountable for their bad behavior you will see an increase in bad behavior. It will rise to the level you hold them accountable for.

I believe police officers generally get a pass on bad behavior unless it rises to a level that simply can not be ignored.

For this reason I DO support police reform, starting with the 7 points I outlined in post 4 and including point 8 as outlined above.

For the record, I think the knee on neck thing should be overturned. I think he is probably not guilty of murder. But even if he is, between the issues with not sequestering the jury, having a juror who attended a political protests inspired by the events he's on trial for wearing the t-shirt he did and then lying about it, having a sitting senator call for more riots if he isn't convicted, having the city pay out a settlement to the family, having riots the jury encountered, etc, etc, etc... There's no way he got a fair trial.

Here's the thing though. His behavior was wrong. He shouldn't have been kneeling callously on the man neck when he didn't have to. Decades of police being allowed to get away with that kind of behavior made him callously indifferent. He thought he could do whatever he wanted. Because that's what he's been taught. Just like the rioters looting the stores are being taught their behavior is OK.

I think the man probably died of a combination of Fentanyl overdose and a bad ticker. Unlucky for the officer that he died. If he hadn't died, the officer wouldn't have faced any reprimand. Nothing would have come of it.

That's my problem, the behavior is either always wrong or it's not. But you don't see them lining up all the officers who have ever done this and charging them with attempted murder do you?

Over punishing one officer for his bad behavior when things go sideways isn't going to fix the problem. Police officers need to be consistently held accountable for bad behavior even when things don't go sideways.
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Old 08-11-2021, 10:22 AM
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Default Re: Cops raid wrong home, humiliate naked woman, attempt to keep video secret

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Originally Posted by Zenock View Post
AZRWinger, I know you are responding primarily to mister wonder.

But...

How many of the points in post 4 would you support for police reform?

I would add...

8. Police in general should if anything receive more funding, not less.

I want to say, while I think that the police's behavior in this case was abysmal and that they should be held responsible for that behavior, I do not support what seems to be a growing vendetta against the police.

I do NOT believe police are inherently racist.

I do think if you do not police the community you see an increase in crime.

The same principle holds true for police. If you do not hold them accountable for their bad behavior you will see an increase in bad behavior. It will rise to the level you hold them accountable for.

I believe police officers generally get a pass on bad behavior unless it rises to a level that simply can not be ignored.

For this reason I DO support police reform, starting with the 7 points I outlined in post 4 and including point 8 as outlined above.

For the record, I think the knee on neck thing should be overturned. I think he is probably not guilty of murder. But even if he is, between the issues with not sequestering the jury, having a juror who attended a political protests inspired by the events he's on trial for wearing the t-shirt he did and then lying about it, having a sitting senator call for more riots if he isn't convicted, having the city pay out a settlement to the family, having riots the jury encountered, etc, etc, etc... There's no way he got a fair trial.

Here's the thing though. His behavior was wrong. He shouldn't have been kneeling callously on the man neck when he didn't have to. Decades of police being allowed to get away with that kind of behavior made him callously indifferent. He thought he could do whatever he wanted. Because that's what he's been taught. Just like the rioters looting the stores are being taught their behavior is OK.

I think the man probably died of a combination of Fentanyl overdose and a bad ticker. Unlucky for the officer that he died. If he hadn't died, the officer wouldn't have faced any reprimand. Nothing would have come of it.

That's my problem, the behavior is either always wrong or it's not. But you don't see them lining up all the officers who have ever done this and charging them with attempted murder do you?

Over punishing one officer for his bad behavior when things go sideways isn't going to fix the problem. Police officers need to be consistently held accountable for bad behavior even when things don't go sideways.
You followed up your police reform suggestions with a diatribe against the police in post 9 where you repeat virtually every accusation in the OP as fact. It's the unquestioning acceptance of the same OP that smears police as state sponsored terrorists that makes it difficult to imagine the so-called reforms are nothing more than attacks on the police in general.

As I noted before there are sober, more even handed articles that covered the event that gave a more complete picture of the situation including the fact there are 3 investigations underway and multiple Chicago aldermen have taken up the cause. No attempt is made to get the police side of the story, the author doesn’t even bother with the police spokesperson refused comment. There can't be a rational discussion starting with the assumption police are conducting a campaign of terrorism as the OP states in the opening you are either in agreement with the lynch mob or you are defending terrorism.

I agree officer Chauvin deserves a new trial due to the malfeasance of city and the tainting of the jury by the media. Guilty or innocent we all deserve due process even the police.

The officer that shot and killed Michael Brown was falsely vilified as a murderer before any investigation was completed. Just like the Chicago search warrant gone wrong the demogoguery condemned all police for the alleged crime and called for reform to end policing. Even after the grand jury declined to return an indictment Ferguson was looted and burned and the incident propelled the trained Marxists leading BLM to a huge position of influence. Although innocent the police officer was forced to resign and move away his life destroyed. We see the same tactics and rhetoric applied to the Chicago police.
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