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Old 11-16-2019, 12:08 PM
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Default The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them

The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them
As a test, Homeland Security officials tried to sneak guns and bombs through TSA checkpoints. They succeeded almost every time.

been happening since its creation folks.
TSA is BS security theater, and unconstitutional search

Quote:


Few post-9/11 security measures have proven as enduring as the creation of the Transportation Security Administration, which effectively nationalized airport security and dramatically increased screening procedures on flights. In a matter of months, flights went from something you could arrive 30 minutes to an hour beforehand and be fine to something you needed to budget two hours for, what with the shoe removal and the liquids and the possibility of a random pat-down.

It's annoying, but it's also worse than annoying. The TSA's inefficiency isn't just aggravating and unnecessary; by pushing people to drive instead of fly, it's actively dangerous and costing lives. Less invasive private scanning would be considerably better.
Why the TSA falls short

The TSA is hard to evaluate largely because it's attempting to solve a non-problem. Despite some very notable cases, airplane hijackings and bombings are quite rare. There aren't that many attempts, and there are even fewer successes. That makes it hard to judge if the TSA is working properly — if no one tries to do a liquid-based attack, then we don't know if the 3-ounce liquid rule prevents such attacks.

So Homeland Security officials looking to evaluate the agency had a clever idea: They pretended to be terrorists, and tried to smuggle guns and bombs onto planes 70 different times. And 67 of those times, the Red Team succeeded. Their weapons and bombs were not confiscated, despite the TSA's lengthy screening process. That's a success rate of more than 95 percent.
It's easy to make too much of high failure rates like that. As security expert Bruce Schneier likes to note, such screenings don't have to be perfect; they just have to be good enough to make terrorists change their plans: "No terrorist is going to base his plot on getting a gun through airport security if there's a decent chance of getting caught, because the consequences of getting caught are too great."
But even Schneier says 95 percent was embarrassingly high, and probably not "good enough" for those purposes. If you're a prospective terrorist looking at that stat, you might think smuggling a gun onto a plane is worth a shot.
Schneier isn't a TSA defender by any means. He likes to note that there's basically zero evidence the agency has prevented any attacks. The TSA claims it won't provide examples of such cases due to national security, but given its history of bragging about lesser successes, that's a little tough to believe. For instance, the agency bragged plenty about catching Kevin Brown, an Army vet who tried to check pipe bomb-making materials. Brown wasn't going to blow up the plane — the unfinished materials were in his checked luggage — but if the TSA publicized that, why wouldn't it publicize catching someone who was trying to blow up the plane?

The Government Accountability Office is also skeptical that the TSA is stopping terrorists. It concluded in 2013 that there's no evidence the agency's SPOT program, which employed 2,800 as of the study and attempts to scan passengers for suspicious behavior, is at all effective. Only 14 percent of passenger flaggings by TSA officers led to a referral to law enforcement. Only 0.6 percent of TSA flaggings led to an arrest. None of those arrests were designated as terrorism-related.

What about the most loathed TSA rules: the shoe removal requirement, and the ban on all but the tiniest containers of liquids? There's never been any evidence that these are effective. Remember: We caught the people who tried to attack with their shoes and with liquid explosives, without these rules in place. Europe is gradually phasing out the liquid ban.
The TSA has never presented any evidence that the shoe ban is preventing attacks either. "Focusing on specific threats like shoe bombs or snow-globe bombs simply induces the bad guys to do something else," Schneier tells Vanity Fair's Charles Mann. You end up spending a lot on the screening and you haven’t reduced the total threat."
How TSA hassle kills people

The TSA doesn't save lives, but it probably ends them. One paper by economists Garrick Blalock, Vrinda Kadiyali, and Daniel Simon found that, controlling for other factors like weather and traffic, 9/11 provoked such a large decrease in air traffic and increase in driving that 327 more people died every month from road accidents. The effect dissipated over time, but the total death toll (up to 2,300) rivals that of the attacks themselves.
...

That might be worth it for a system that we know for a fact prevents attacks. But there's no evidence the TSA does. Meanwhile, as Bloomberg's Adam Minter notes, a classified TSA study found that private screeners were more effective than TSA staff, and a 2011 report from the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee suggested that private screeners are considerably more efficient at processing passengers.
The solution is clear: Airports should kick out the TSA, hire (well-paid and unionized) private screeners, and simply ask people to go through normal metal detectors with their shoes on, their laptops in their bags, and all the liquids they desire. The increased risk would be negligible — and if it gets people to stop driving and start flying, it could save lives.
...
VOX
https://getpocket.com/explore/item/t...=pocket-newtab
story's from 2016 but nothings changed.
And the solution is NOT hiring "private contractors" to do the same crap.


Israel runs the best terrorist screening if that's what we want we should use that.
If we really want to screen for bombs and gun powered etc people and luggage can go through devices that have sensitive detectors. there have been test done with MICE which detect the stuff that's nearly 100% effective.

But the issue really is the terror event (or accident) on planes is extremely low. and any the programs put in place are expensive overkill.
Quote:
"The macabre but exhaustive website planecrashinfo.com put the odds of being killed on a single airline flight at about
one in 4.7 million
across 78 major world airlines; among the airlines with the worst safety records, the odds rise to
one in 2 million."
http://www.businessweek.com/articles...ravel-too-safe
•A recent report from the National Safety Council put the lifetime odds of dying as a pedal cyclist at
1 in 4,982.
•on a motorcycle that number jumps up to
1 in 907 .
•as a pedestrian
1 in 749.
•And as the occupant of a car
1 in 415.

•the death risk for passengers of commercial airlines is
one in 45 million flights.
According to The New York Times, a traveler could fly every day for 123,000 years and still be safe. Although travel fatality statistics are represented in a variety of formats, commercial airlines are the safest mode of transport any way you look at it.
TSA is a unconstitutional, counter-productive, incompetent waste.
Steve Theodoropoulos and Henry Preston, are former air marshall whistle blowers who exposed:
•Piss poor management,
•supervisors drunk on the job
•TSA search quotas vs real search targets at airports
•TSA harassing Air Marshalls
•Air Marshalls on terror watch list
• TSA insiders who buck system harassed and their families
•proven discrimination against blacks, hispanics, gays within the air marshall service
• negative info passed to congress sat on
•and exposed info that shows some TSA classified info to Cover their hindquarters.

Add to that that
TSA has only made 1000's of arrest over weed and other minor items but ZERO terrorist.
They've needlessly harassed old ladies, children, the handicapped, and veterans while letting known terrorist fly unmolested.
Plus the TSA started unconstitutional search people cars in Airport parking lots, search people at train stations and on the US roads.
It should really be phase out.
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Last edited by mr wonder; 11-16-2019 at 12:13 PM..
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Old 11-16-2019, 12:12 PM
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Default Re: The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them

the Israelis do not have a TSA. they screen people who are SUSPECT. Not every living soul, their shoes and baby formula. that's stupid.
If a person is SUSPECT at the airport yes investigate. "probable cause" and all that.

but not WHOLESALE screening.

and on the creative end. There are some bomb experts that have found that mice can detect bomb making materials better than dogs or mechanical devices. with near 95% success. without even opening the bags.

So run every bag pass the mice screeners. No need to open a bag UNLESS you get an alert.... you have a "probable cause".

As far as safety on the plane, the 1st line is securing the pilot doors which i think has already been done.
the other is controlling threatening passengers. As mentioned the TSA has let a lot of things slip by. they have caught some knifes and some guns. but not close to all of the them I've seen more than one report of middle eastern businessmen and others who accidental left loaded guns in their carry on luggage and did not get caught by the TSA .( probably busy laughing a fat chick.)
(BTW https://web.archive.org/web/20130401..._screening.htm)

But at this point there are air marshals on flights and frankly I think a lot of men on the flights would not allow 2 or 3 men on a flight to control it as we are told was done on 9/11.
And today ,at the least, flight attendants should have access to tazers and pepper sprays.
But frankly I'd suggest that planes be rigged with tear gas, pepper spray or the like that can take all passenger down on the plane for the duration or at least until the pilots can land. With the pilots secure in the cockpits and all the passengers incapacitated it would be EXTREMELY hard to detonate a bomb. If the pilots felt the flight was in danger there'd be little objection. (waivers signed at ticketing for the lawyers.)
The FAA's Red Team has other ideas and thinks the TSA should be removed.

And we have to remember there is no foolproof way to protect ANYTHING. But those measure are a LOT better than the keystone cop TSA agents.
Anyway those are some of my suggestions on stopping potential plane hijackers or bombers.

without ANY TSA.
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Old 11-16-2019, 12:16 PM
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Default Re: The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them

The TSA is a necessary evil for one reason...Without it, there is no airline industry…

If each individual airline was responsible for its own security, they would be liable for every security failure, and any incident would be accompanied with a gazillion lawsuits, bankrupting the airline...Do this across the board and, eventually, you'd have no airlines left...

Of course the TSA is horrible...Some of them couldn't find their own pants in a pile of socks...But the alternative would be the complete destruction of the airline industry in general...
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Old 11-16-2019, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
The TSA is a necessary evil for one reason...Without it, there is no airline industry…

If each individual airline was responsible for its own security, they would be liable for every security failure, and any incident would be accompanied with a gazillion lawsuits, bankrupting the airline...Do this across the board and, eventually, you'd have no airlines left...

Of course the TSA is horrible...Some of them couldn't find their own pants in a pile of socks...But the alternative would be the complete destruction of the airline industry in general...
nope.
airlines handled security before and can do it again.
it's always has been, and still is, the safest way to travel in the world.
One incident won't shut them down.
Plus there have been a couple of Boeing planes recently that have literally just fallen out of the sky becasue of construction issues. Boeing is fine and so is the airline industry.
The industry isn't as fragile as some would like to make it out to be.
People like to fly ...NEED to fly, it's not going away.
But TSA surly can be swept into to the trash.
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Old 11-16-2019, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them

TSA Brings Body Scanning to L.A. Transit Stations
By Angie Schmitt Aug 17, 2018
https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/08/...nsit-stations/


But the transit industry will collapse without it right?

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Old 11-16-2019, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them

I don't think passengers on a plane hijacked by terrorist monkeys are going to allow them to control the plane, knowing what happened on September 11, 2001. The mindset of "If I'm going to die, I'm taking as many of the bad guys as I can down, so I'll have a chance of surviving", will most likely kick in immediately.

The TSA is going to try to stay in business for the sole pupose of continuing to extort money from the airline passengers and to give perverts some good sensations. Safety is the farthest thing on their minds.
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Old 11-21-2019, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them
As a test, Homeland Security officials tried to sneak guns and bombs through TSA checkpoints. They succeeded almost every time.

been happening since its creation folks.
TSA is BS security theater, and unconstitutional search


story's from 2016 but nothings changed.
And the solution is NOT hiring "private contractors" to do the same crap.


Israel runs the best terrorist screening if that's what we want we should use that.
If we really want to screen for bombs and gun powered etc people and luggage can go through devices that have sensitive detectors. there have been test done with MICE which detect the stuff that's nearly 100% effective.

But the issue really is the terror event (or accident) on planes is extremely low. and any the programs put in place are expensive overkill.


TSA is a unconstitutional, counter-productive, incompetent waste.
Steve Theodoropoulos and Henry Preston, are former air marshall whistle blowers who exposed:
•Piss poor management,
•supervisors drunk on the job
•TSA search quotas vs real search targets at airports
•TSA harassing Air Marshalls
•Air Marshalls on terror watch list
• TSA insiders who buck system harassed and their families
•proven discrimination against blacks, hispanics, gays within the air marshall service
• negative info passed to congress sat on
•and exposed info that shows some TSA classified info to Cover their hindquarters.

Add to that that
TSA has only made 1000's of arrest over weed and other minor items but ZERO terrorist.
They've needlessly harassed old ladies, children, the handicapped, and veterans while letting known terrorist fly unmolested.
Plus the TSA started unconstitutional search people cars in Airport parking lots, search people at train stations and on the US roads.
It should really be phase out.
You forgot sexual assault and theft of passengers belongings. Both of which are rampant.
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Old 11-21-2019, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenock View Post
You forgot sexual assault and theft of passengers belongings. Both of which are rampant.
you're right.
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Old 11-23-2019, 01:28 AM
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Default Re: The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them

I agree that the TSA is just a false sense of security. It's also a pointless invasion of privacy. Now that it has become so central to air security, it has grown leverage to ask for more support.

The problem is the government will do nothing about it. It provides jobs, and it let's Congressmen say they're making the country safe. Security always trumps anything in American politics, whether it's money or individual rights.
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: The TSA is a Waste of Money That Doesn't Save Lives and Might Actually Cost Them

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
I agree that the TSA is just a false sense of security. It's also a pointless invasion of privacy. Now that it has become so central to air security, it has grown leverage to ask for more support.

The problem is the government will do nothing about it. It provides jobs, and it let's Congressmen say they're making the country safe. Security always trumps anything in American politics, whether it's money or individual rights.
I believe you found a topic on which you and I can agree.
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