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Law & Order Discuss From the White House to the Big House at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by FrancSevin Have we ever had a President threatened with jail over political policy from the day of ...

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Old 05-08-2019, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: From the White House to the Big House

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Have we ever had a President threatened with jail over political policy from the day of his election?
What policy? Make mo-mo money for trump incorporated? they man's a con
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:56 AM
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Default Re: From the White House to the Big House

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Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
Have we ever had a president run for reelection in order to avoid jail time?
Nope. And, it isn't going to happen in 2020 either.

We have had an impeached President agree to surrender his law license for 5 years as punishment for lying to a grand jury under oath.

The Mueller investigation was confidently predicted to deliver a clear cut case for impeachment if not for imprisonment of President Trump. It did neither. But don't worry, that straw can be spun into gold with the right alchemy of poisonous rhetoric and hatred.
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Old 05-09-2019, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: From the White House to the Big House

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
Does the name Bill Clinton ring a bell?
There's a list of the Clinton scandals in this article from May 2016 that can be used as a guide.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a...ilgate-2562906

Many of these are related to individuals other than the Clinton's but that had an association with the Clintons. The more serious scandals such as Hillary Clinton's statements after Benghazi, Clinton Foundation "pay for play" and Hillary Clinton's use of a private email account have been investigated and no criminal misconduct was found. It's a good list though and to say that the Clinton's were not involved in numerous scandals would be incorrect.

At the same time it's not comparable to Donald Trump where virtually everything he's been involved in is under criminal investigations by the FBI. The Trump campaign, the Trump Foundation, the Trump inauguration Committee, Trump violations of campaign finance laws, the Trump organization, Trump's business dealings with the Russians, and the list goes on and on. In each of these cases the FBI has evidence that a crime probably occurred and the Donald Trump is responsible for that crime (the criteria for any investigation).

This also leaves out the court decisions related to past criminal conduct by Donald Trump starting with his involvement in racial segregation of the NY City apartments in the 1960's and early 1970's with his father to the fraud committed by Trump University in recruiting students to attend classes where they learned nothing of value that they couldn't have learned in a few hours reading on the internet.

The comparison is like comparing the few incidental cases of child separation related to unlawful border crossings under the Obama Administration with the systematic and planned separation of thousands of children from their parents as a policy under the Trump Administration.

Or perhaps the comparison that all politicians make false and misleading statements to Trump's earth-shattering record of over 10,000 false and misleading statements in just over two years.

We're dealing with a whole new order of magnitude when we address criminal behavior, dishonesty, a lack of integrity, racism, inhumane policies, disregard for the law and our Constitution, incompetence, and authoritarianism whenever we address Donald Trump. Donald Trump is the first president to literally threaten the very foundation of our Republic which should be of the gravest concern for every American.
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: From the White House to the Big House

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Nope. And, it isn't going to happen in 2020 either.

We have had an impeached President agree to surrender his law license for 5 years as punishment for lying to a grand jury under oath.

The Mueller investigation was confidently predicted to deliver a clear cut case for impeachment if not for imprisonment of President Trump. It did neither. But don't worry, that straw can be spun into gold with the right alchemy of poisonous rhetoric and hatred.
False

Try actually reading the Mueller Report.

It outlines an organized effort by the Trump Campaign to withhold information on the contacts with the Russians after the FBI had warned the Trump campaign about the nefarious intent of the Russians to interfere with the 2016 campaign. That withholding of information from the FBI significantly impaired the investigation into Russian involvement also lead to the FBI investigation of members of the Trump campaign that the FBI knew had been in contact with the Russians. The FBI didn't investigate the "Trump campaign" but did investigate the contacts between Trump campaign members and the Russians after the Trump campaign conspired to keep that information from the FBI.

The Mueller Report provides 10 different counts of Obstruction of Justice for future prosecution once Trump is no longer the sitting president. This also provides grounds for impeachment and removal from office by Congress prior to the end of Trump's elected term of office if Congress decides to take that route. Or Congress can choose to not impeach and remove Trump office and instead continue it's oversight investigations knowing that Trump will be prosecuted and convicted in less than two years. Impeachment and removal from office early is surrounded by partisan politics where the GOP is unwilling to address the facts and the evidence to remove Trump from office. The GOP can't do a damn thing about Trump being indicted and prosecuted once he leaves office and the Mueller Report specifically establishes the 10 counts were evidence exists for indictment and conviction of Donald Trump for obstruction of justice the day he leaves the Oval Office.

Over 700 former DOJ prosecutors and officials have all come forward, putting their reputations on the line, to state that the grounds for indictment and conviction of Donald Trump are contained in the Mueller Report.

This doesn't even address the other numerous FBI investigations where evidence already exists for indictment and the conviction of Donald Trump such as his felony violation of the campaign finance laws in paying off two women that he had sexual relations with to prevent them from going public just before the election. Trump has been named as an unindicted co-conspirator (because he can't be indicted until he leave office under DOJ policy) and the leader of those two felony counts by the FBI.

As noted, excluding the intervention of the next president in 2021, President Trump is going to be indicted, prosecuted, and convicted when he leaves office and the Mueller Report contains the evidence necessary for several of those indictments and convictions.
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Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
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Old 05-09-2019, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: From the White House to the Big House

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Federal prosecutors and members of the DOJ don't hate anyone and don't allow their personal opinions to affect their judgement when it comes to the interpretation of the facts and the law.

Even the extreme case of Peter Strzok the Inspector General for the DOJ, after a formal investigation, found that Strzok's person political opinions did not affect the investigation of Hillary Clinton's emails. The investigation was conducted properly under FBI guidelines without any evidence of bias and that the decision not to indict was based upon the law, the facts, and prior prosecution precedent.

The letter has now been signed by over 700 former federal prosecutors and DOJ officials that throughout their careers were able to exclude any personal political bias or opinion from interfering with their responsibilities to enforce the laws of the United States. The former prosecutors and members of the DOJ are placing their career reputations on the line in signing this letter.
The FBI investigation into Hillary's illegal email server wasn't conducted according to guidelines. It was politicized from the beginning when senior bureau managers took the investigation into their direct control rather than assigning it to a field office. The destruction of the email archives and all backups a clear demonstration of criminal intent were ignored. The DOJ issued grants of immunity from prosecution to those around Hillary with no requests from investigators or prefers of evidence. Comey personally directed the destruction of two laptop computers seized from close associates. Hillary was allowed to have multiple staffers attend her single interview including the coconspirator who directed the editing of her email archive. No follow up interview was allowed after the initial unrecorded interview with Hillary where she claimed not to remember as a response more than 40 times. After drafting the so-called exoneration memo before more than a dozen witnesses including Hillary were interviewed Comey short circuited the criminal prosecution decision by the DOJ because in his words the AG was compromised. There is nothing standard in the way the investigation was conducted.

The special counsel was given free rein to investigate Trump with all the powers of a Federal prosecutor with no timeline or fixed budget. Not a single grant of immunity was given. The Trump administration produced over a million pages of requested documents and even made the WH counsel available for 30 hours of interviews. Mueller wasn't replaced.

The contrast between the politicized Hillary email investigation and the Trump administration's helpfulness toward the special counsel's could not be more stark. Yet, Hillary is innocent and Trump is a criminal.
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Old 05-12-2019, 06:44 AM
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Default Re: From the White House to the Big House

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The FBI investigation into Hillary's illegal email server wasn't conducted according to guidelines. It was politicized from the beginning when senior bureau managers took the investigation into their direct control rather than assigning it to a field office. The destruction of the email archives and all backups a clear demonstration of criminal intent were ignored. The DOJ issued grants of immunity from prosecution to those around Hillary with no requests from investigators or prefers of evidence. Comey personally directed the destruction of two laptop computers seized from close associates. Hillary was allowed to have multiple staffers attend her single interview including the coconspirator who directed the editing of her email archive. No follow up interview was allowed after the initial unrecorded interview with Hillary where she claimed not to remember as a response more than 40 times. After drafting the so-called exoneration memo before more than a dozen witnesses including Hillary were interviewed Comey short circuited the criminal prosecution decision by the DOJ because in his words the AG was compromised. There is nothing standard in the way the investigation was conducted.

The special counsel was given free rein to investigate Trump with all the powers of a Federal prosecutor with no timeline or fixed budget. Not a single grant of immunity was given. The Trump administration produced over a million pages of requested documents and even made the WH counsel available for 30 hours of interviews. Mueller wasn't replaced.

The contrast between the politicized Hillary email investigation and the Trump administration's helpfulness toward the special counsel's could not be more stark. Yet, Hillary is innocent and Trump is a criminal.
The Inspector General of the DOJ investigated the Clinton email investigation and results and found no improprieties in the investigation. The investigation was conducted within the guidelines for investigation were decisions were based upon the evidence being uncovered by the investigators. The IG in the report on the investigation found that the decision to not prosecute was based upon "the law, the facts, and prior prosecutorial precedent."

The only IG condemnation related to the email investigation was the post investigation public comments by FBI Direct James Comey expressing opinions about Hillary Clinton's actions. It's a violation of DOJ policy to express opinions or evidence related to anyone that hasn't been indicted. This was after the investigation was complete and did not affect the investigation.

There was no attempt to destroy State Department emails. Hillary Clinton assigned the responsibility of sorting State Dept emails that had to be turned over to the State Dept and personal emails that could be deleted to her attorneys. The attorneys made no effort to nefariously violate the law in their segregation of emails into the two different groups. Because reading each email was prohibitive from a cost standpoint they used "string" searches to segregate emails into the two groups and then the attorneys, not Hillary Clinton deleted those identified as personal emails. The FBI found nothing criminal in the methods the attorneys used,

Hillary Clinton wasn't involved in the separation of emails into personal and State Dept and had nothing to do with the deletion of any emails. Her attorneys performed all of the task in good faith not attempting to hide or cover up anything. Their method wasn't perfect but there was no criminal intent.

The FBI often grants immunity from prosecution to obtain the truth during an investigation. To my knowledge the FBI cannot destroy any personal property seized without a court order.

While investigators had expressed personal political opinions in private text message the IG found no evidence of political bias in the investigation.

Get over it. Hillary Clinton did not commit a crime and has been cleared by a properly conducted FBI investigation where no political bias in the investigation was found.

Trump fired James Comey because of the Russia investigation. Trump ordered the AG to fire Andrew McCabe because of the Russia investigation. Trump attempted to fire Mueller over the Russia investigation and then attempted to have McGahn lie about it.

Donald Trump refused to be interviewed in person by the Mueller investigation about his actions. That's not cooperating with the FBI. Trump was aware in advance of Michael Cohen's intention to lie to Congress and, according the Cohen's more recent testimony, it was Trump that directed him to commit perjury. Since learning of the contents of the Mueller Report Trump is responsible for two attempts to have Don McGahn, a key witness against Donald Trump, issue statements that McGahn doesn't believe Trump obstructed justice. These are attempts to influence a witness against the President and is obstruction of justice.

There are over 800 former FBI investigators that state the evidence necessary to indict, prosecute, and convict Donald Trump is contained in the summary of the Mueller Report.

We can also note that AG Barr made his decision Trump didn't commit a crime, that the Mueller Report said was impossible to make because of the evidence that Trump did commit the crime of obstruction of justice, without ever even reviewing the evidence of obstruction and has refused to turn over the evidence to Congress. Not only did the President obstruct justice but the Attorney General at the President's direction is obstructing the Constitutional responsibility of Congressional oversight by refusing to turn over evidence of crimes committed by the President..
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"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
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Old 05-12-2019, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: From the White House to the Big House

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
The Inspector General of the DOJ investigated the Clinton email investigation and results and found no improprieties in the investigation. The investigation was conducted within the guidelines for investigation were decisions were based upon the evidence being uncovered by the investigators. The IG in the report on the investigation found that the decision to not prosecute was based upon "the law, the facts, and prior prosecutorial precedent."

The only IG condemnation related to the email investigation was the post investigation public comments by FBI Direct James Comey expressing opinions about Hillary Clinton's actions. It's a violation of DOJ policy to express opinions or evidence related to anyone that hasn't been indicted. This was after the investigation was complete and did not affect the investigation.

There was no attempt to destroy State Department emails. Hillary Clinton assigned the responsibility of sorting State Dept emails that had to be turned over to the State Dept and personal emails that could be deleted to her attorneys. The attorneys made no effort to nefariously violate the law in their segregation of emails into the two different groups. Because reading each email was prohibitive from a cost standpoint they used "string" searches to segregate emails into the two groups and then the attorneys, not Hillary Clinton deleted those identified as personal emails. The FBI found nothing criminal in the methods the attorneys used,

Hillary Clinton wasn't involved in the separation of emails into personal and State Dept and had nothing to do with the deletion of any emails. Her attorneys performed all of the task in good faith not attempting to hide or cover up anything. Their method wasn't perfect but there was no criminal intent.

The FBI often grants immunity from prosecution to obtain the truth during an investigation. To my knowledge the FBI cannot destroy any personal property seized without a court order.

While investigators had expressed personal political opinions in private text message the IG found no evidence of political bias in the investigation.

Get over it. Hillary Clinton did not commit a crime and has been cleared by a properly conducted FBI investigation where no political bias in the investigation was found.

Trump fired James Comey because of the Russia investigation. Trump ordered the AG to fire Andrew McCabe because of the Russia investigation. Trump attempted to fire Mueller over the Russia investigation and then attempted to have McGahn lie about it.

Donald Trump refused to be interviewed in person by the Mueller investigation about his actions. That's not cooperating with the FBI. Trump was aware in advance of Michael Cohen's intention to lie to Congress and, according the Cohen's more recent testimony, it was Trump that directed him to commit perjury. Since learning of the contents of the Mueller Report Trump is responsible for two attempts to have Don McGahn, a key witness against Donald Trump, issue statements that McGahn doesn't believe Trump obstructed justice. These are attempts to influence a witness against the President and is obstruction of justice.

There are over 800 former FBI investigators that state the evidence necessary to indict, prosecute, and convict Donald Trump is contained in the summary of the Mueller Report.

We can also note that AG Barr made his decision Trump didn't commit a crime, that the Mueller Report said was impossible to make because of the evidence that Trump did commit the crime of obstruction of justice, without ever even reviewing the evidence of obstruction and has refused to turn over the evidence to Congress. Not only did the President obstruct justice but the Attorney General at the President's direction is obstructing the Constitutional responsibility of Congressional oversight by refusing to turn over evidence of crimes committed by the President..
Let's see some quotes with links where the IG clearly states there were no improprieties in the investigation into Hillary's illegal email server conspiracy. Surely you aren't endorsing Comey writing the so-called exoneration letter before 16 witnesses including Hillary were interviewed or condone secret tarmac meetings the week before Hillary's FBI interview, do you?

Having your attorney or IT consultants commit a felony by destroying the Secretary of State's email archive, government records, and all backup copies doesn't magically transform the act into something lawful. It's impossible to believe Hillary had no culpability or knowledge of the scheme to print out some 30,000 selected emails then destroy the archive along with the metadata necessary to verify it. We only have the word of Hillary and her coconspirators as to how many emails there were on her illegal server but that cannot be challenged.

You correctly note that Grant's of immunity are used to get at the truth. That is not what happened here. The DOJ collected no proffers of testimony, required no guilty pleas to lesser offenses and wasn't responding to investigators requests, they used immunity to block the investigation.

It is easily verified that Comey generously offered to destroy the laptop computers of two of Hillary's top aides in return for consent to look for specific evidence. This is corruption at the highest level.

Your claim of Hillary's innocence is at variance with Comey's testimony to the House, he stated there was plenty of criminal activity but declared the lack of intent made the offenses non prosecutable.
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Old 05-13-2019, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: From the White House to the Big House

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
Let's see some quotes with links where the IG clearly states there were no improprieties in the investigation into Hillary's illegal email server conspiracy. Surely you aren't endorsing Comey writing the so-called exoneration letter before 16 witnesses including Hillary were interviewed or condone secret tarmac meetings the week before Hillary's FBI interview, do you?

Having your attorney or IT consultants commit a felony by destroying the Secretary of State's email archive, government records, and all backup copies doesn't magically transform the act into something lawful. It's impossible to believe Hillary had no culpability or knowledge of the scheme to print out some 30,000 selected emails then destroy the archive along with the metadata necessary to verify it. We only have the word of Hillary and her coconspirators as to how many emails there were on her illegal server but that cannot be challenged.

You correctly note that Grant's of immunity are used to get at the truth. That is not what happened here. The DOJ collected no proffers of testimony, required no guilty pleas to lesser offenses and wasn't responding to investigators requests, they used immunity to block the investigation.

It is easily verified that Comey generously offered to destroy the laptop computers of two of Hillary's top aides in return for consent to look for specific evidence. This is corruption at the highest level.

Your claim of Hillary's innocence is at variance with Comey's testimony to the House, he stated there was plenty of criminal activity but declared the lack of intent made the offenses non prosecutable.
You comment about a case without having read the Inspector General's investigative report on that case? Why would anyone consider an opinion fundamentally based upon ignorance as having any validity?

Here's the link to the IG investigation of the Clinton emails.

https://www.justice.gov/file/1071991/download

Become informed and that valid questions about Clinton's use of a private server, her non-involvement with the segregation and emails, and the destruction of emails identified as personal emails where deletion was completely acceptable as well as any records of those emails.

Unlike organized crime yndicates (and Donald Trump) all respectable leaders in both the private and public sector employ reputable attorneys that would never, under any circumstance, violate the law for the benefit or a client.

Clinton's attorneys were given the instruction to segregate her emails into State Department and Personal Emails and to comply fully with the law in providing the State Department emails to the State Department. That's exactly what they made every effort to do. COMPLY WITH THE LAW.

The fact that a few State Department emails slipped through the crack, were identified as personal emails, and deleted was not the commission of a criminal act that could be prosecuted.
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"I always had a rule, if the White House is dirty on the inside, it's dirty on the outside." ShivaTD

Based upon the corruption, brutality, inhumanity, immorality, dishonesty, and incompetence of the Trump administration the White House is the dirtiest house in America and there's no known cleanser that with remove the stains of the Trump Administration.
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Old 05-13-2019, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: From the White House to the Big House

The anti-Trump sensitive snowflakes need to give their butt hurts a rest and wait until after Trump's second term is up, to make more "cases" against him.
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