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Law & Order Discuss He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him. at the Political Forums; He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/07/u...s-lawsuit.html WASHINGTON — Like lots of Americans, Robert Frese is ...

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Old 01-10-2019, 05:12 AM
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Default He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.

He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/07/u...s-lawsuit.html

WASHINGTON — Like lots of Americans, Robert Frese is not shy about expressing his views on the internet. Last year, in a comment on a newspaper’s Facebook page, he said a New Hampshire police officer who had given him a traffic citation was “a dirty cop.” The police chief, Mr. Frese added, was a coward who had covered up the matter.
The police officers might have looked the other way. They might have responded, explaining their positions and letting readers decide who was right. They might have filed a civil suit for libel, seeking money from Mr. Frese.
Instead, they did a fourth thing, one that seems at odds with the American commitment to free expression, particularly where criticism of government officials is concerned. They arrested Mr. Frese, saying he had committed criminal libel....
"..seems at odds with the American commitment to free expression..."
... ya think?
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/07/u...s-lawsuit.html

WASHINGTON — Like lots of Americans, Robert Frese is not shy about expressing his views on the internet. Last year, in a comment on a newspaper’s Facebook page, he said a New Hampshire police officer who had given him a traffic citation was “a dirty cop.” The police chief, Mr. Frese added, was a coward who had covered up the matter.
The police officers might have looked the other way. They might have responded, explaining their positions and letting readers decide who was right. They might have filed a civil suit for libel, seeking money from Mr. Frese.
Instead, they did a fourth thing, one that seems at odds with the American commitment to free expression, particularly where criticism of government officials is concerned. They arrested Mr. Frese, saying he had committed criminal libel....
"..seems at odds with the American commitment to free expression..."
... ya think?
Semantics matter. I took a quick look at the link, but didn't see Mr. Freese's actual FB post. I've learned, that when someone makes a comment as such, the preventative to slander and libel (for the most part) is including such words like "In my opinion', virtually any type of disclaimer statement that declares it as opinion. When not including that statement, you are making a statement of fact... which when proven to be false, puts the speaker in the position of libel or slander.

Did the cops take it a bit far? Yeah, likely. But even with freedom of speech, comes responsibility.


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Old 01-10-2019, 09:56 AM
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Default Re: He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Semantics matter. I took a quick look at the link, but didn't see Mr. Freese's actual FB post. I've learned, that when someone makes a comment as such, the preventative to slander and libel (for the most part) is including such words like "In my opinion', virtually any type of disclaimer statement that declares it as opinion. When not including that statement, you are making a statement of fact... which when proven to be false, puts the speaker in the position of libel or slander.

Did the cops take it a bit far? Yeah, likely. But even with freedom of speech, comes responsibility.
I didn't see the actual post either, so it's difficult to comment.

One interesting point. This is apparently not his first run in with this issue.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.

I think the police officers involved in the arrest need to lay off the Krispy Kremes, and go out to look for bad guys instead.
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Old 01-10-2019, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Semantics matter. I took a quick look at the link, but didn't see Mr. Freese's actual FB post. I've learned, that when someone makes a comment as such, the preventative to slander and libel (for the most part) is including such words like "In my opinion', virtually any type of disclaimer statement that declares it as opinion. When not including that statement, you are making a statement of fact... which when proven to be false, puts the speaker in the position of libel or slander.

Did the cops take it a bit far? Yeah, likely. But even with freedom of speech, comes responsibility.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
I didn't see the actual post either, so it's difficult to comment.

One interesting point. This is apparently not his first run in with this issue.
wow, ok, question. Could you folks give me an example of what you think someone could say about the police or an individual police or gov't official on facebook that would be worthy of cops coming to your house to arrest you?

And based on that would anything said about Trump or Obama rise to the level?
Or is it only police that get to arrest people becasue someone said something harsh, or false about them?
I'm just trying to get a feel for what kind of police state you guys think we live in.
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:27 PM
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Default Re: He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
wow, ok, question. Could you folks give me an example of what you think someone could say about the police or an individual police or gov't official on facebook that would be worthy of cops coming to your house to arrest you?

And based on that would anything said about Trump or Obama rise to the level?
Or is it only police that get to arrest people becasue someone said something harsh, or false about them?
I'm just trying to get a feel for what kind of police state you guys think we live in.
A screed encouraging violence against the police individually or as a group. Without access to the text written by the individual there is no way to tell if it contained a call for violence.
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Old 01-15-2019, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.

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A screed encouraging violence against the police individually or as a group. Without access to the text written by the individual there is no way to tell if it contained a call for violence.
well, threats or called to violence have always been something cops could look into and possibly make a aresst on.
(many men that have restraining orders however aren't aressted for words on facebook but for being to close or actual violent actions)

And even though we don't have the actual text to story makes it clear that he wasn't charged for violent threats but for "libel".
..New Hampshire police officer who had given him a traffic citation was “a dirty cop.” The police chief, Mr. Frese added, was a coward who had covered up the matter....They arrested Mr. Frese, saying he had committed criminal libel.
If they could have charged him with violent threats they would have.
Fact is they didn't like being called names, and ...presumably... lied about on facebook.

If calling names and lying (or telling the truth) about cops is "criminal libel" then why idon't the same rules apply for the president, mayor and dogcatcher? why are police the only protected class no one can speak ill of? And who can arrest people for hurting their feelwings?
snowflakes on the left and right. both want to use the courts and corps to shut down "offensive" speech seems to me.
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Old 01-15-2019, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
well, threats or called to violence have always been something cops could look into and possibly make a aresst on.
(many men that have restraining orders however aren't aressted for words on facebook but for being to close or actual violent actions)

And even though we don't have the actual text to story makes it clear that he wasn't charged for violent threats but for "libel".
..New Hampshire police officer who had given him a traffic citation was “a dirty cop.” The police chief, Mr. Frese added, was a coward who had covered up the matter....They arrested Mr. Frese, saying he had committed criminal libel.
If they could have charged him with violent threats they would have.
Fact is they didn't like being called names, and ...presumably... lied about on facebook.

If calling names and lying (or telling the truth) about cops is "criminal libel" then why idon't the same rules apply for the president, mayor and dogcatcher? why are police the only protected class no one can speak ill of? And who can arrest people for hurting their feelwings?
snowflakes on the left and right. both want to use the courts and corps to shut down "offensive" speech seems to me.

hear-hear




And folks ragging on my sister-in-law would be in jail (which might not be a bad thing? )
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
wow, ok, question. Could you folks give me an example of what you think someone could say about the police or an individual police or gov't official on facebook that would be worthy of cops coming to your house to arrest you?

And based on that would anything said about Trump or Obama rise to the level?
Or is it only police that get to arrest people becasue someone said something harsh, or false about them?
I'm just trying to get a feel for what kind of police state you guys think we live in.
Threats for bodily harm, a call for others to commit bodily harm, will get you a visit.

Statements denouncing someone without opinion, shouldn't get you a visit, but a phone call if available, for starters.

From what I understand, this wasn't his first round....
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Old 01-16-2019, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: He Disparaged the Police on Facebook. So They Arrested Him.

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
wow, ok, question. Could you folks give me an example of what you think someone could say about the police or an individual police or gov't official on facebook that would be worthy of cops coming to your house to arrest you?
I don't know what he actually said, but to answer your question, if he had said:
"Officer Jones is a dirty cop who solicited a bribe from me to not write the ticket and the police chief covered it up so that it would not come out that he is a child molester."
Now, if he said this knowing it was false he would be in violation of NH criminal libel laws and would be subject to arrest.
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