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Law & Order Discuss Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary manslaug at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by foundit66 I've already addressed this. There is no recognizable "leniency" involved. The sentence is right in lines ...

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2017, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I've already addressed this.
There is no recognizable "leniency" involved.
The sentence is right in lines with involuntary manslaughter. No leniency.

Your last post gave a decent overview that does not indicate "leniency".
The judge's sentence of 2.5 years w/15 mos. mandatory is curious considering the seriousness of the verdict. The judge honored the defense motion for a stay of the sentence which acknowledges the appeal on first amendment grounds. Time served in prison can't be taken back. Of course, the prosecution argued for the sentence to imposed immediately. The judge agreed to the stay for appeals in the Mass. system and further stays would have to be approved as the process moves into the Federal system.
The fact that this guy has his own personal crusade is not really significant.
Leniency. If the range of prison time is say up to 15 years and she got 15 months and the judge honored a stay even on that, I'd say he was fairly charitable considering she is guilty of "reckless" involuntary murder. In his explanation prior to granting the stay of execution of the sentence, Judge Muniz states;
"Although I have been very involved in this case, no one should assume that I have taken exclusive jurisdiction of it, because I don't know how much longer I'll be here".

I took that to mean several things. 1. The good judge is planning to retire 2. or the process of appeals will outlast his service on the bench 3. and/or Muniz and others he's consulted with know that the verdict is vulnerable.

Breggin's crusade: He's been challenging his own profession and its' ties to the drug companies for years. He has been proven to be correct in his assertion that psych drugs don't correct imbalances in the brain but create many other problems that do "harm". I think he views these tragedies as preventable and it does no good to prescribe a pill, especially to a kid, trusting a medical model. The psychiatric industry let both Conrad and Michelle down.

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Old 09-13-2017, 03:22 PM
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Post Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
Leniency. If the range of prison time is say up to 15 years and she got 15 months ...
We've already been over this.
The sentencing is right in there within the guidelines.
It's not even at the "lower" end of the scale.
That being said, although involuntary manslaughter sentences differ among the states, the crime is usually treated as a felony at both the federal and state level. This means that it can be punished by at least 12 months imprisonment, fines and probation, among other sentences.

Penalties and Sentencing at the Federal and State Levels

The base sentence for involuntary manslaughter under federal sentencing guidelines is a 10 to 16 month prison sentence, which increases if the crime was committed through an act of reckless conduct.
Involuntary Manslaughter Penalties and Sentencing - FindLaw
A conviction for involuntary manslaughter leads to a sentence of 10-16 months in prison, but that can be increased if the incident was due to recklessness.
https://geoffreygnathanlaw.com/invol...ghter-charges/

The last one was to a Boston lawyer => Massachusetts law.

She got 15 months.
ONE MONTH LESS THAN MAX.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
... and the judge honored a stay even on that, I'd say he was fairly charitable considering she is guilty of "reckless" involuntary murder.
The stay has nothing to do with leniency.
It has to do with the fact that there will obviously be an appeal and she can't "undo" time in prison.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
In his explanation prior to granting the stay of execution of the sentence, Judge Muniz states;
"Although I have been very involved in this case, no one should assume that I have taken exclusive jurisdiction of it, because I don't know how much longer I'll be here".
I took that to mean several things. 1. The good judge is planning to retire 2. or the process of appeals will outlast his service on the bench 3. and/or Muniz and others he's consulted with know that the verdict is vulnerable.
It's like somebody is talking about an apple orchard and assessing the possibilities of
a) Granny Smith,
b) Ambrosia,
c) Orange

Item c) has no intelligible interpretation from the statements above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
Breggin's crusade: He's been challenging his own profession and its' ties to the drug companies for years. He has been proven to be correct in his assertion that psych drugs don't correct imbalances in the brain but create many other problems that do "harm". I think he views these tragedies as preventable and it does no good to prescribe a pill, especially to a kid, trusting a medical model. The psychiatric industry let both Conrad and Michelle down.
This is like complaining that the Ford in a drunk driving manslaughter case could have been built better and prevented the death.
IT IS IRRELEVANT to how this vile ####'s guilt.
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Old 09-13-2017, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
We've already been over this.
The sentencing is right in there within the guidelines.
It's not even at the "lower" end of the scale.
That being said, although involuntary manslaughter sentences differ among the states, the crime is usually treated as a felony at both the federal and state level. This means that it can be punished by at least 12 months imprisonment, fines and probation, among other sentences.

Penalties and Sentencing at the Federal and State Levels

The base sentence for involuntary manslaughter under federal sentencing guidelines is a 10 to 16 month prison sentence, which increases if the crime was committed through an act of reckless conduct.
Involuntary Manslaughter Penalties and Sentencing - FindLaw
A conviction for involuntary manslaughter leads to a sentence of 10-16 months in prison, but that can be increased if the incident was due to recklessness.
https://geoffreygnathanlaw.com/invol...ghter-charges/

The last one was to a Boston lawyer => Massachusetts law.

She got 15 months.
ONE MONTH LESS THAN MAX.



The stay has nothing to do with leniency.
It has to do with the fact that there will obviously be an appeal and she can't "undo" time in prison.



It's like somebody is talking about an apple orchard and assessing the possibilities of
a) Granny Smith,
b) Ambrosia,
c) Orange

Item c) has no intelligible interpretation from the statements above.



This is like complaining that the Ford in a drunk driving manslaughter case could have been built better and prevented the death.
IT IS IRRELEVANT to how this vile ####'s guilt.


F66,

The link you referenced for sentencing is Fed. baseline recommendations, not the Mass. system, but I'll quote your reference anyhow.


Quote:
The base sentence for involuntary manslaughter under federal sentencing guidelines is a 10 to 16 month prison sentence, which increases if the crime was committed through an act of reckless conduct. The minimum sentence for involuntary manslaughter committed with an automobile is higher still, although judges may use a certain amount discretion in those cases.

While states often take their cues from the federal courts when drafting their own sentencing guidelines, they do vary widely on this issue. States will generally give a range of possible sentences and allow judges discretion in determining what sentence to actually impose.

Mass. has its' own grid that the judge used to guide his decisions. If you remember, the prosecution argued for 7 to 12 years of prison, not 16 months. Believing that 16 mos. was a max. is just unrealistic. See the problem? The truth is that the judge could have sentenced Carter to anything from probation to 20 years. Obviously, the range isn't 10 to 16 months. The judge had wide discretion and at sentencing he referred to a black pamphlet that deals with juvenile offenders and best practices in Mass. He says he came to his decision by balancing punishment and rehabilitation and reminds us that it is the juvenile court. Again, she received a light and compassionate sentence with deferment to serve her time in anticipation of a lengthy appeals process.


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Old 09-15-2017, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
F66,
The link you referenced for sentencing is Fed. baseline recommendations, not the Mass. system, but I'll quote your reference anyhow.
And the SECOND sentencing guideline link I gave WAS EXPLICITLY MASSACHUSETTS.
I repeat:
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
A conviction for involuntary manslaughter leads to a sentence of 10-16 months in prison, but that can be increased if the incident was due to recklessness.
https://geoffreygnathanlaw.com/invol...ghter-charges/

The last one was to a Boston lawyer => Massachusetts law.

She got 15 months.
ONE MONTH LESS THAN MAX.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
Mass. has its' own grid that the judge used to guide his decisions. If you remember, the prosecution argued for 7 to 12 years of prison, not 16 months.
There are additional qualifier possibilities that can be added.
For example, some areas allow for higher sentencing if it's vehicular manslaughter with alcohol involved.

That doesn't change what I posted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
Believing that 16 mos. was a max. is just unrealistic. See the problem?
You're trying to argue against people posting the facts by pointing to this specific case which involves other aspects to it.
For involuntary manslaughter in the state of Massachusetts, all by itself, is 10-16 months.
See above.

These are guidelines. I don't know if Massachusetts allows judges to ignore the guidelines and give higher sentencing, which would be in line with a prosecution asking for more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
The truth is that the judge could have sentenced Carter to anything from probation to 20 years. Obviously, the range isn't 10 to 16 months. The judge had wide discretion and at sentencing he referred to a black pamphlet that deals with juvenile offenders and best practices in Mass. He says he came to his decision by balancing punishment and rehabilitation and reminds us that it is the juvenile court. Again, she received a light and compassionate sentence with deferment to serve her time in anticipation of a lengthy appeals process.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvmV9xZFVTU
The fact is that Massachusetts has involuntary manslaughter sentencing of 10-16 months.
She got 15 months.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2017, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

P66. The crime was of a "reckless" nature and the prosecution argued for 7 to 12 years. The judge had the authority to imposed it. The actual sentence was 2.5 years, to serve 1.25 years. 2.5 years > 16 mos. Again, he wasn't limited. He had lots of room to decide and use the mitigating factors as he saw fit. After all, he's the judge. The factors he probably used were, of course prior convictions, which were none. She was 17 at the time and so he consulted the black pamphlet to create balance between punishment and rehab.


Massachusetts Sentencing Grid
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

Dr. Peter Breggin, the expert witness for the defense, has posted his 6th installment on the Michelle Carter Case. "How Adult Society betrayed Michelle Carter and Conrad Roy". He presents his case using public records.
Reviewing Michelle and Conrad's relationship from the beginning reveals serious problems with society, parenting, social media, prosecutorial ethics, and the practice of prescribing drugs to children by the mental health industry.
I think this is a good case to follow as progresses through the levels of appeal. As I learned more about this case, I wondered about another case in Mass. in 1969 in which the driver of a car was directly involved in the death of his passenger and was not charged with manslaughter. He pled guilty to leaving the scene of an accident and lost his driver's license for a period of time.


https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/09...er-conrad-roy/
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Old 09-27-2017, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

The process of the wrongful death lawsuit against Michelle Carter has begun seeking damages of 4.2 million dollars. This case would be separate from any appeals case but I guess they could proceed simultaneously.

Michelle Carter Responds To Wrongful Death Lawsuit In Conrad Roy Suicide Case

Quote:
The young woman convicted of involuntary manslaughter in the suicide of her boyfriend responded Tuesday to a wrongful death lawsuit filed by his family. Lawyers on behalf of Michelle Carter responded to the $4.2 million lawsuit filed by Lynn Roy, the mother of Conrad Roy III.

“The defendant neither admits nor denies these allegations in this form,” said attorneys Francis Lynch III and Andrew Lynch, according to MassLive.

Carter, now 20, was convicted of involuntary manslaughter after Roy, then her boyfriend, committed suicide in 2014 at the age of 18. The trial captivated the nation as thousands of text messages were read in which Carter urged Roy to take his own life. In a contentious decision, Carter was sentenced in August to two and a half years behind bars with 15 months to be served and the rest suspended until 2022.

Roy’s mother filed the wrongful death lawsuit against Carter after her conviction and sentencing, alleging “gross negligence” and “willful, wanton and reckless conduct.”

“Miss Carter knew that Mr. Roy had a history of attempted suicides and was being treated for mental health issues including severe depression,” the suit said, according to documents obtained by Radar Online. “During the months and weeks prior to his death, Conrad H. Roy III exchanged communication with the Defendant, Michelle Carter, in which Ms. Carter encouraged Mr. Roy to kill himself and chastised him for delaying the act.”

Carter, however, formally appealed her prison sentence and the decision is pending. Her sentence has been suspended until the court rules on the appeal: until then, Carter was free to leave with her family. Because she is still appealing sentence, the ambiguous response to the lawsuit makes sense, Northeastern University School of Law Professor Daniel Medwed told MassLive.
“If they were to admit anything now, that’s a statement that could be used against Carter if there’s ever a retrial,” he said. “It's good lawyering to not say anything in writing if you can avoid it, especially when there’s the specter of a possible new trial.”
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