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Law & Order Discuss Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary manslaug at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by Bat She certainly did do that. But she didn't kill him, he killed himself. Yes, she is ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2017, 11:40 PM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

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Originally Posted by Bat View Post
She certainly did do that. But she didn't kill him, he killed himself.
Yes, she is a horrible person but she didn't kill him.

I shudder to think that spoken (texted) words can result in a manlaughter verdict.
What free speech will next be considered a crime?
"manslaughter" is for the result of death whether directly or indirectly...
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Old 08-08-2017, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

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Originally Posted by Lollie View Post
No she was in the driver's seat every step of the way.
Not a snowball's chance in hell that anyone could drive me to that point, but then we're talking about an apparently weak person here very overpowered by another.
According to Dr. Peter Breggin, Michelle Carter was was doing well up till she was 14. She was succeeding in school, sports, and socially. He describes the events and circumstances in which she was introduced to "mental health professionals" and then put on a substantial dose of Prozac back in 2011. SSRI's are a big part of Michelle and Conrad's toxic history and there is much to learn from it.



https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/08...ac-sees-devil/
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Old 08-31-2017, 08:40 AM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

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Originally Posted by Bat View Post
I'm thinking that a seventeen year old ain't that powerful.
You weren't that powerful when you were seventeen and neither was I.
He was suicidal for years and committed suicide. He was in the drivers seat, not her.
I agree that her actions were horrid, but she didn't kill him, he killed himself.

Even though the case is over, it has produced some unusual behind the scenes drama. The battle continued in a legal maneuver by Assist. DA Katie Rayburn to convince Judge Moniz to stop the comments by expert witness, Dr. Peter Breggin. This happened on Aug. 11 and according to Breggin, neither his lawyer or Carter's lawyers were notified in a timely manor, thus unable to make arguments.
I have been following his blog on the MIA website. Two parts of a three part series has been written on the case so this would apply to part 3 and anything else. This looks like "pre publication censorship" according to Breggin.

I guess I shouldn't say that this case is totally over because of the appeals process and the possibility of reversal. Carter's sentence was 15 months jail time and not 15 years prison as the prosecutor had urged and the 15 months won't be served until the end of the process and the verdict is upheld.

This is an extremely important case, one in which there is more at stake than just 15 months in jail for Carter. The young prosecutor, who is also nominated to a judgeship, might like to continue controlling the narrative along with Judge Moniz who handed down the verdict. Maybe the pharmaceutical companies would be displeased with the negative PR regarding their products. Conrad Roy's parents are also suing Michelle Carter so would Breggin's Blog tip the balance in a civil case?

https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/08...ess-stop-blog/
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Old 09-06-2017, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

Update: The DA was evidently unsuccessful in her attempt to have the Judge censure Dr. Breggin. He is not allowed to release or divulge Conrad's medical records, which he has not, but is not prohibited from continuing his blog. Number 4 was just released with at least one more to follow. Did she tell Conrad to "get back in the truck"? The judge's decision hinges on this and so Breggin offers a counter to the DA's claim and the resulting verdict. How was this beyond a reasonable doubt?


https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/09...-in-the-truck/
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Old 09-06-2017, 10:50 AM
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Post Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

It is difficult to read through his diarrhea of biased commentary while he dances around the actual facts at hand.
The doctor sounds like a real piece of work.
In an emergency motion filed in the Taunton Juvenile Court, Assistant District Attorney Katie Rayburn said Dr. Peter Breggin had published medical details from impounded court records given to him in his role as an expert witness in the case.

"Dr. Breggin, who was paid by the state to be an expert, should not be allowed to take those personal, private records of a boy who's dead and put them on his website for profit," Rayburn said in a hearing, reports the Boston Herald. "He's asking for money at the end."
Peter Breggin, psychiatric expert witness for Michelle Carter, blogged about confidential health records, prosecutors say | masslive.com

So that's what the purpose was. Dr. Breggin couldn't take it upon himself to be honest about that in his blog.

And the comments about Michelle's lawyers?
It's not their job to be concerned about HIS actions which are being argued as improper. So this crap about them not having enough time?
It's stupid, dishonest crap as they have no responsibility to represent him and what he wants to blog about.
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Old 09-06-2017, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
It is difficult to read through his diarrhea of biased commentary while he dances around the actual facts at hand.
The doctor sounds like a real piece of work.
In an emergency motion filed in the Taunton Juvenile Court, Assistant District Attorney Katie Rayburn said Dr. Peter Breggin had published medical details from impounded court records given to him in his role as an expert witness in the case.

"Dr. Breggin, who was paid by the state to be an expert, should not be allowed to take those personal, private records of a boy who's dead and put them on his website for profit," Rayburn said in a hearing, reports the Boston Herald. "He's asking for money at the end."
Peter Breggin, psychiatric expert witness for Michelle Carter, blogged about confidential health records, prosecutors say | masslive.com

So that's what the purpose was. Dr. Breggin couldn't take it upon himself to be honest about that in his blog.

And the comments about Michelle's lawyers?
It's not their job to be concerned about HIS actions which are being argued as improper. So this crap about them not having enough time?
It's stupid, dishonest crap as they have no responsibility to represent him and what he wants to blog about.

There's 2 or more sides to what's going on. As we anticipated, her legal team has made the first appeal to the verdict on the grounds of "free speech". The Judge certainly knew he was on shaky ground and thus only sentenced her to 15 months.

Your article was from Aug 10th, and the Judges ruling was on Sept. 1.
The rulings appear very benign and routine. Breggin can blog away having Michelle Carter's release authority but not use anything from Conrad Roy's confidential medical record other than what was part of the open court record. The non profit, Mad in America, sent the judge documents which seems to sufficiently refute the DA's claims that Breggin is profiting financially.


http://breggin.com/cases/carter/Judg...der-9.1.17.pdf

Last edited by zoriolus; 09-06-2017 at 12:32 PM..
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:43 AM
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Post Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

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Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
There's 2 or more sides to what's going on. As we anticipated, her legal team has made the first appeal to the verdict on the grounds of "free speech". The Judge certainly knew he was on shaky ground and thus only sentenced her to 15 months.


The sentence is right in the range of what she was convicted of.
That being said, although involuntary manslaughter sentences differ among the states, the crime is usually treated as a felony at both the federal and state level. This means that it can be punished by at least 12 months imprisonment, fines and probation, among other sentences.

Penalties and Sentencing at the Federal and State Levels

The base sentence for involuntary manslaughter under federal sentencing guidelines is a 10 to 16 month prison sentence, which increases if the crime was committed through an act of reckless conduct.
Involuntary Manslaughter Penalties and Sentencing - FindLaw

And no.
There are not "two sides" to what the doctor did.
He misrepresented the problem of the "availability" Michelle Carter's lawyers on a motion that had nothing to do with Carter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
Your article was from Aug 10th, and the Judges ruling was on Sept. 1.
And you were quoting his blog from August 31st.

Do you recognize this further destroys the pretense that the Judge's ruling was "sudden"?
There was advance notice of this problem.
Your doctor is blatantly lying about what was going on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
The rulings appear very benign and routine.
Then why is your doctor whining about them?
Why are you reposting that doctor whining about them?


Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
Breggin can blog away having Michelle Carter's release authority but not use anything from Conrad Roy's confidential medical record other than what was part of the open court record. The non profit, Mad in America, sent the judge documents which seems to sufficiently refute the DA's claims that Breggin is profiting financially.


The doctor would be prohibited from blogging about Michelle's confidential records before she released them. The fact that she subsequently released them for the doctor is a sign of the right process eventually being followed.

The court ruling covered his intent to talk about Conrad Roy's confidential medical record. He was stopped from doing that.
These are good things.

Your doctor is a liar.
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Last edited by foundit66; 09-11-2017 at 12:12 PM..
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

F66:

Peter Breggin is not "my doctor". He was an expert witness for the defense who believes that Carter's actions are partially explained by the meds she was prescribed. Involuntary Intoxication is the legal term.

The judges actual ruling was on Sept. 1. Here's the document link again.

http://breggin.com/cases/carter/Judg...der-9.1.17.pdf

"There are 2 or more sides to what's going on", not just Breggin's opinion. The judge's sentence of 2.5 years w/15 mos. mandatory is curious considering the seriousness of the verdict. The judge honored the defense motion for a stay of the sentence which acknowledges the appeal on first amendment grounds. Time served in prison can't be taken back. Of course, the prosecution argued for the sentence to imposed immediately. The judge agreed to the stay for appeals in the Mass. system and further stays would have to be approved as the process moves into the Federal system.


Sentencing hearing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN9fLmPh_C4
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

Peter Breggin has released his 5th installment on the case and promises more commentary in the upcoming weeks. He asserts that the leniency of the sentence is related to the vulnerability of the verdict to review. He also comments on the family ties of the DA and Roy family along with ambitions of the Assist. DA Katie Rayburn to be a judge.


https://www.madinamerica.com/2017/09...al-witch-hunt/
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:15 AM
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Post Re: Massachusetts texting suicide verdict: Michelle Carter guilty of involuntary mans

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Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
Peter Breggin has released his 5th installment on the case and promises more commentary in the upcoming weeks. He asserts that the leniency of the sentence is related to the vulnerability of the verdict to review.
I've already addressed this.
There is no recognizable "leniency" involved.
The sentence is right in lines with involuntary manslaughter. No leniency.

Your last post gave a decent overview that does not indicate "leniency".
The judge's sentence of 2.5 years w/15 mos. mandatory is curious considering the seriousness of the verdict. The judge honored the defense motion for a stay of the sentence which acknowledges the appeal on first amendment grounds. Time served in prison can't be taken back. Of course, the prosecution argued for the sentence to imposed immediately. The judge agreed to the stay for appeals in the Mass. system and further stays would have to be approved as the process moves into the Federal system.
The fact that this guy has his own personal crusade is not really significant.
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