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Law & Order Discuss Teen convicted of DUI/Manslaughter; sentenced to Church among other things at the Political Forums; Judge sentences teen to 10-years of church for DUI death | Mail Online A judge in Oklahoma handed down an ...

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Old 11-19-2012, 09:21 PM
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Default Teen convicted of DUI/Manslaughter; sentenced to Church among other things

Judge sentences teen to 10-years of church for DUI death | Mail Online
Quote:
A judge in Oklahoma handed down an unconventional sentence of 10 years of church on Tuesday to a teenager who pleaded guilty to first-degree manslaughter for a DUI crash.
Tyler Alred, 17, had been charged as a youthful offender for the crash on December 3, 2011 that took the life of 16-year-old John Luke Dum of Muskogee, Oklahoma.
Dum was a passenger in the red pickup truck that Alred was driving on the night of the crash and he was ejected from the vehicle when the truck crashed. Breathalyzer tests from that fateful night showed that Alred had a blood-alcohol content of .006.

An emotional scene played out on Tuesday when District Judge Mike Norman announced the sentence, as Alred made a statement to the family of the victim, he first time addressing them since the 2011 crash, according to the Muskogee Phoenix newspaper.
‘I know my words cannot bring him back,’ Alred said. ‘I did not want to do what I did. I want to change my life. I have changed my life,’ as he wept openly.

‘This is terrible,’ he said. ‘This is awful.’
As Alred broke down, Dum’s father, John, stood and embraced the emotional teen and began sobbing as he held the boy.
‘I’m sorry. I’m so sorry,’ the teenager repeated.
Members of the Dum family had read statements expressing their loss and their hope that Alred would learn from his mistake.
Despite their grief, the victim’s sister, Caitlin, said ‘We don’t need to see two lives wasted for a mistake.’
Judge Norman gave Alred a 10-year deferred sentence, which is the maximum for a juvenile.
The list of conditions Alred must comply with, or face prison time, include: graduating from high school, graduating from welding school, taking drug and alcohol assessment and submitting to drug, alcohol and nicotine tests for a year, wearing a drug and alcohol bracelet, taking part in victim’s impact panels and attending church for 10 years.
Now, there are two things I want to examine in this case.

1) Is the judge sentencing him to church unconstitutional or illegal? Many people have been sentenced to church before and to my knowledge there hasn't been a precedent setting case to address this. Furthermore, the judge proposed the idea to the prosecutor, the family of the victim, and the offender's lawyer. All 3 sides agreed to the sentence.

2) Assuming this is a legal sentence, do you feel it is acceptable? Many would say he needs to go into prison, while the family of the victim doesn't want to see his life wasted or thrown out. It is a tough call, a toss up.

Thoughts?
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:20 AM
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Default Re: Teen convicted of DUI/Manslaughter; sentenced to Church among other things

I have no problem with the sentence. He is young and made a mistake. I am all for second chances. Hopefully the ten years of probation and church will help the lad and cause him to be a better person so he does not repeat the mistake.

After all, not committing further crimes should be a goal among our judicial system. If everyone learned from their mistakes, we would be a lot better off.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Teen convicted of DUI/Manslaughter; sentenced to Church among other things

Conceptually I like the sentence. I LOVE the idea that we unbind judges from these stupid mandatory sentencing guidelines (federal and many states) and allow them to do what they do best. Make judgment calls. Mandatory sentencing, though great to an outsider, creates serious problems when there are better solutions for the fact scenario before the judge.

HOWEVER, practically, I have some serious concerns about this sentence. Linking any sort of sentence to religion is, to my mind, a violation of fundamental constitutional rights that cannot be violated. While today it may be all well and good that the child has found God and is willing to go to church, let's fast forward a couple of years down the road and see what happens if he decides he's a devout atheist or muslim, or Jew, or Wiccan... Well that screws with the sentencing and who handles the sentencing and... It's just a night mare. And IF there isn't a change, you've used government to force religion on the man violating his core first amendment rights.

Tough call.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Teen convicted of DUI/Manslaughter; sentenced to Church among other things

violation of his constitutional rights, IMO. I cannot abide a government that can force anyone to attend mythological ramblings on a regular basis.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:07 AM
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Default Re: Teen convicted of DUI/Manslaughter; sentenced to Church among other things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awahso View Post
Judge sentences teen to 10-years of church for DUI death | Mail Online


Now, there are two things I want to examine in this case.

1) Is the judge sentencing him to church unconstitutional or illegal? Many people have been sentenced to church before and to my knowledge there hasn't been a precedent setting case to address this. Furthermore, the judge proposed the idea to the prosecutor, the family of the victim, and the offender's lawyer. All 3 sides agreed to the sentence.

2) Assuming this is a legal sentence, do you feel it is acceptable? Many would say he needs to go into prison, while the family of the victim doesn't want to see his life wasted or thrown out. It is a tough call, a toss up.

Thoughts?
A wise judge and evidently a prosecutor concerned with the actual welfare of the community. Bully for them.

*** as for church. a court case isn't tried in a vacuum. this is a christian atmosphere and the judge seems to think the teen will best respond to that. If it was a Buddhist area maybe the punishment would be different. but I see nothing wrong with this particular condition.

**should a teen go to prison for 10 years? Not unless he set out to kill or did reckless crimes over and over. I feel as the family it would be a waste.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:41 PM
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Post Re: Teen convicted of DUI/Manslaughter; sentenced to Church among other things

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
Conceptually I like the sentence. I LOVE the idea that we unbind judges from these stupid mandatory sentencing guidelines (federal and many states) and allow them to do what they do best. Make judgment calls. Mandatory sentencing, though great to an outsider, creates serious problems when there are better solutions for the fact scenario before the judge.

HOWEVER, practically, I have some serious concerns about this sentence. Linking any sort of sentence to religion is, to my mind, a violation of fundamental constitutional rights that cannot be violated. While today it may be all well and good that the child has found God and is willing to go to church, let's fast forward a couple of years down the road and see what happens if he decides he's a devout atheist or muslim, or Jew, or Wiccan... Well that screws with the sentencing and who handles the sentencing and... It's just a night mare. And IF there isn't a change, you've used government to force religion on the man violating his core first amendment rights.

Tough call.


Also, it presents the possibility for preferential treatment.
Suppose another teen does the exact same thing. But this one's an atheist.
You can't sentence him to church without directly showing you're violating his first amendment rights. So do you send him to jail instead?
You're presenting a situation where two people of different religious outlooks receive disparate treatment. Based on their religion.
Constitutional violation.
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:14 PM
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Default Re: Teen convicted of DUI/Manslaughter; sentenced to Church among other things

Quote:
Originally Posted by Awahso View Post
Judge sentences teen to 10-years of church for DUI death | Mail Online


Now, there are two things I want to examine in this case.

1) Is the judge sentencing him to church unconstitutional or illegal? Many people have been sentenced to church before and to my knowledge there hasn't been a precedent setting case to address this. Furthermore, the judge proposed the idea to the prosecutor, the family of the victim, and the offender's lawyer. All 3 sides agreed to the sentence.

2) Assuming this is a legal sentence, do you feel it is acceptable? Many would say he needs to go into prison, while the family of the victim doesn't want to see his life wasted or thrown out. It is a tough call, a toss up.

Thoughts?
Since he agreed to the sentence, constitutionality doesn't come in to it.

I have to wonder how drunk someone can be with a BAC of .006.


On a more 'twisted' note.......I wonder if the Judge assigned a denomination for that church? Would a Satan worshiping church be accepted?
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: Teen convicted of DUI/Manslaughter; sentenced to Church among other things

Is the .006 a mistake? It seems to me you could get that level by walking past a drink.

I have no problem with this sentence for a couple of reasons.
First, it sounds like this was part of a plea agreement, so there was consent.
Second, he commited a crime that resulted in another's death. In my opinion he surrendered his rights at that point, if the Judge thought church would help I have no problem with forcing him to go.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: Teen convicted of DUI/Manslaughter; sentenced to Church among other things

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Originally Posted by lurch907 View Post
Is the .006 a mistake? It seems to me you could get that level by walking past a drink.

I have no problem with this sentence for a couple of reasons.
First, it sounds like this was part of a plea agreement, so there was consent.
Second, he commited a crime that resulted in another's death. In my opinion he surrendered his rights at that point, if the Judge thought church would help I have no problem with forcing him to go.
I think they mean .06, probably a typo.
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