Police and Bhutto supporters clash

[KnightOfSappho]

Originally Posted by cnredd

But they both want the same result for different reasons...

It's like the minutemen wanting to secure our borders (patriotic idea), but they get support from the Klan who wants the same results for different reasons(get rid of the non-whites)...

Agreed.

Over in Pakistan, the people who are TRULY fighting for democracy don't realize that getting it could cause their destruction because the public is favoring radicals...

To some degree, I agree with that as well.

Gerald Ford was so bad, the Democrats could've put up a complete idiot for President in 1976...

In all fairness to him, he didn't exactly ask for the job.

In Pakistan, if they hold democratic elections, the public doesn't realize that the people they want democratically elected into office will actually stifle democracy MORE in the long run...A few years from now, they'd be begging for Mushareff to come back...

I'm not entirely convinced that the radical element would actually win.

[KnightOfSappho]

Originally Posted by cnredd

I agree UNLESS there's something we don't know...

How radical is the military?...For all we know, the second he takes the uniform off, the power gets transferred to someone else who causes a coup...

I'm on board with you...but I'm also skiptical of periphery elements...

That is what has me worried.

Instead of directly after the elements that are currently taking the border areas, he is replacing judges that oppose him, blacking out the news services and rounding up everyone that opposes him.

[cnredd]

Originally Posted by KnightOfSappho

I'm not entirely convinced that the radical element would actually win.

And who'd ever thought Hamas would win in Palestine?...

How's THAT "democracy" working out for them?...

A little reading(and where Bin laden almost certainly is)...

[KnightOfSappho]

Originally Posted by cnredd

And who'd ever thought Hamas would win in Palestine?...

How's THAT "democracy" working out for them?...

A little reading(and where Bin laden almost certainly is)...

I'll certainly give you that one, but his current actions will only help empower the radicals.

And whomever keeps power in the end, they are going to have to rout the extremists that have taken the border areas. Those extremists are going to move right into afghanistan.

[cnredd]

Originally Posted by KnightOfSappho

I'll certainly give you that one, but his current actions will only help empower the radicals.

And whomever keeps power in the end, they are going to have to rout the extremists that have taken the border areas. Those extremists are going to move right into afghanistan.

Unless the "whomever keeps power in the end" ARE the radicals...

Then it's game over...

Remember...Pakistan has nuclear weapons...

Would you rather have Mushareff in control of them now or take a chance on the future?...

[KnightOfSappho]

Originally Posted by cnredd

Unless the "whomever keeps power in the end" ARE the radicals...

Then it's game over...

Remember...Pakistan has nuclear weapons...

Would you rather have Mushareff in control of them now or take a chance on the future?...

Ugh...

That's like being asked if I would rather eat ground glass or drink poison...

[cnredd]

Originally Posted by KnightOfSappho

Ugh...

That's like being asked if I would rather eat ground glass or drink poison...

EXACTOMUNDO!!!!!!!

When the options are "sucks" and "really sucks", you gotta pick "sucks" every time...

Why do you think people still whine about us backing the Shah?...because they don't understand the alternative was worse...(and many are finding out now)...

Why do you think people still whine about us backing the guerilla groups in Latin America?...because they don't understand the alternative was worse...

And now, we have people attacking Mushareff (remember Obama last month?) under the same bewilderment...

Yes Mushareff sucks...Yes Mushareff is not good for the country...Yes Mushareff is stifling democracy...

But Mushareff is also the BEST option we have right now...

Remember this line...and remember it well...

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king...

[KnightOfSappho]

The only problem with that idea is that in choosing between 'sucks' and 'might get better or might get worse' many (reasonably) go for the gamble.

The situation is precarious.

I openly admit that he has been helpful to us so far, but I'm not so sure that he can be trusted to be helpful to us in the long term.

[cnredd]

Originally Posted by KnightOfSappho

The only problem with that idea is that in choosing between 'sucks' and 'might get better or might get worse' many (reasonably) go for the gamble.

The situation is precarious.

I openly admit that he has been helpful to us so far, but I'm not so sure that he can be trusted to be helpful to us in the long term.

But you have to know the odds of "'might get better or might get worse" beforehand...

The odds of backing the Shah instead of Khomeni WERE in our favor...

The odds of backing the FDN and not the Sandanistas(FLSN) in Nicaragua WERE in our favor...

The odds here?...Still fuzzy...

But once again...are YOU willing to take that chance with a nuclear power?...

Right now, here are your odds...

Chances of Mushareff using nuclear weapons for offensive purposes=pretty minimal...

Chances of the next person in power using nuclear weapons for offensive purposes=Less than the confidence in Mushareff...

THAT is what we're dealing with...

And for future people to say "Well the new people in power may use nuclear weapons, but at least they got elected democratically." is incredibly stupid...

[KnightOfSappho]

I understand your point, but I neither agree nor disagree. I am going to have to see more of how this develops before I form a more solid opinion.