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International Forum Discuss David Cameron plans to seize terror suspects' passports at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by saltwn I would think dangerous times call for dangerous measures. Let us not allow terrorists to take ...

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Old 08-30-2014, 09:50 AM
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Default Re: David Cameron plans to seize terror suspects' passports

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
I would think dangerous times call for dangerous measures. Let us not allow terrorists to take advantage of our goodness.
Giving up our freedoms for Faux safety, is not the answer.
The constitution, our current criminal laws and the already overbearing unconstitutional 'war on terror' edicts ALREADY give Homeland Security (HEIL da Fuhrer!) all of the tools to revoke passports. And/Or make a case for probable cause to investigate, wire tap, search, question and even detain ANYONE in the world. If there's a reason to revoke passports there are laws ALREADY on the books to get that done. Without any new knee jerk draconian edicts pulled out of our arses because the boggie-man MIGHT get us in our sleep.

And it seems it's started a while back already
January 13, 2014 ·
US Embassy Yemen: Revocation of U.S. Passports, a Growing Trend?


but here are the main reasons/excuses officials can use to revoke or deny passports without adding NEW anti freedom edicts.
Quote:
\ 22cfr \ 22 CFR \ PART 51?PASSPORTS \ § 51.60 Denial and restriction of passports.
Previous Document Next Document

§ 51.60 Denial and restriction of passports.


(a) The Department may not issue a passport, except a passport for direct return to the United States, in any case in which the Department determines or is informed by competent authority that:


(1) The applicant is in default on a loan received from the United States under 22 U.S.C. 2671(b)(2)(B) for the repatriation of the applicant and, where applicable, the applicant's spouse, minor child(ren), and/or other immediate family members, from a foreign country (see 22 U.S.C. 2671(d)); or


(2) The applicant has been certified by the Secretary of Health and Human Services as notified by a state agency under 42 U.S.C. 652(k) to be in arrears of child support in an amount determined by statute.


(b) The Department may refuse to issue a passport in any case in which the Department determines or is informed by competent authority that:


(1) The applicant is the subject of an outstanding Federal warrant of arrest for a felony, including a warrant issued under the Federal Fugitive Felon Act (18 U.S.C. 1073); or


(2) The applicant is subject to a criminal court order, condition of probation, or condition of parole, any of which forbids departure from the United States and the violation of which could result in the issuance of a Federal warrant of arrest, including a warrant issued under the Federal Fugitive Felon Act; or


(3) The applicant is subject to a U.S. court order committing him or her to a mental institution; or


(4) The applicant has been legally declared incompetent by a court of competent jurisdiction in the United States; or


(5) The applicant is the subject of a request for extradition or provisional request for extradition which has been presented to the government of a foreign country; or


(6) The applicant is the subject of a subpoena received from the United States pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 1783, in a matter involving Federal prosecution for, or grand jury investigation of, a felony; or


(7) The applicant is a minor and the passport may be denied under 22 CFR 51.28 ; or


(8) The applicant is subject to an order of restraint or apprehension issued by an appropriate officer of the United States Armed Forces pursuant to chapter 47 of title 10 of the United States Code; or


(9) The applicant is the subject of an outstanding state or local warrant of arrest for a felony; or


(10) The applicant is the subject of a request for extradition or provisional arrest submitted to the United States by a foreign country.


(c) The Department may refuse to issue a passport in any case in which:


(1) The applicant has not repaid a loan received from the United States under 22 U.S.C. 2670(j) for emergency medical attention, dietary supplements, and other emergency assistance, including, if applicable, assistance provided to his or her child(ren), spouse, and/or other immediate family members in a foreign country; or


(2) The applicant has not repaid a loan received from the United States under 22 U.S.C. 2671(b)(2)(B) or 22 U.S.C. 2671(b)(2)(A) for the repatriation or evacuation of the applicant and, if applicable, the applicant's child(ren), spouse, and/or other immediate family members from a foreign country to the United States; or


(3) The applicant has previously been denied a passport under this section or 22 CFR 51.61 , or the Department has revoked the applicant's passport or issued a limited passport for direct return to the United States under 22 CFR 51.62 , and the applicant has not shown that there has been a change in circumstances since the denial, revocation or issuance of a limited passport that warrants issuance of a passport; or


(4) The Secretary determines that the applicant's activities abroad are causing or are likely to cause serious damage to the national security or the foreign policy of the United States.


(d) The Department may refuse to issue a passport in a case in which the Department is informed by an appropriate foreign government authority or international organization that the applicant is the subject of a warrant of arrest for a felony.


(e) The Department may refuse to issue a passport, except a passport for direct return to the United States, in any case in which the Department determines or is informed by a competent authority that the applicant is a minor who has been abducted, wrongfully removed or retained in violation of a court order or decree and return to his or her home state or habitual residence is necessary to permit a court of competent jurisdiction to determine custody matters.



ilink | USCIS

The comments by Cameron may just be theatrical, as i suspect the U.K. has similar legal options already on the books.


(And BTW we are still FAR more likely to be killed in car accident, plane crash, falling furniture or by a police officer than to be killed or hurt by terrorist. BUT BE AFRAID the gubberment will protect you.)
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Old 08-30-2014, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: David Cameron plans to seize terror suspects' passports

Cameron, the Pope, the UAE and a bunch of other Arab states are all taking the threat from Isis for what it is. A threat to the entire world! I sure would prefer to eliminate most of them over there rather than wait for more to arrive here and launch attacks.
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Old 08-30-2014, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: David Cameron plans to seize terror suspects' passports

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Cameron, the Pope, the UAE and a bunch of other Arab states are all taking the threat from Isis for what it is. A threat to the entire world! I sure would prefer to eliminate most of them over there rather than wait for more to arrive here and launch attacks.
you think we are "waiting"?
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Old 08-30-2014, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: David Cameron plans to seize terror suspects' passports

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Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Yes, You could leave and go to England.
Already been. Never will willingly go back. People are rude, weather awful, food sucks, city is beyond crowded and has a permanent foul odor in the air.
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: David Cameron plans to seize terror suspects' passports

Fact is that someone is going to attack us somewhere over here because there are too many nuts and we are a free society. You can't stop everything. But it is good that these particular azzwipes are not liked by anyone. One of our biggest issues is Iraq Shiites seem to want to keep attacking the Sunnis. Makes it hard to get much help from Iraq. Why we ever destabilized that region I will never get. Watching "Hubris" it seems pretty clear it was about oil. How did that work out for BR, Shell and Exxon? For what we spent and the lives we lost to secure oil for them they should be sending ours for free.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackass master View Post
Cameron, the Pope, the UAE and a bunch of other Arab states are all taking the threat from Isis for what it is. A threat to the entire world! I sure would prefer to eliminate most of them over there rather than wait for more to arrive here and launch attacks.
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: David Cameron plans to seize terror suspects' passports

It's far down on my bucket list as well. I even have family there from what I gather. I still enjoy Austral/Asia.

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Already been. Never will willingly go back. People are rude, weather awful, food sucks, city is beyond crowded and has a permanent foul odor in the air.
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Old 08-30-2014, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: David Cameron plans to seize terror suspects' passports

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I still enjoy Austral/Asia.
I'm with ya, brother.

I guess England does have something positive to offer. It's such a sh*thole that it can bring Republicans and Democrats together.

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Old 08-31-2014, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: David Cameron plans to seize terror suspects' passports

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
to take it off topic a bit how many viable political parties are there in the UK?
Viable. I would say just one.

Conservatives (Tory for short, and our current government) and Labour. Labour (Tony Blair then Gordon Brown) made a complete mess of our economy. It was reported that Gordon Brown left a note on Cameron's desk (when Cameron won the election in 2010), saying that there's no money left, or words to that effect. Cameron has done an amazing job picking up the economy and the mess that Labour left.

A huge issue here is our membership of the EU (European Union which we joined in the mid 1970s because it eased trading). However it costs the UK hundreds of millions of pounds each year to be a member of. It also seems like we are ruled by it and have no say in a lot of matters; as if we are actually governed by the EU. For instance we can't deport terrorists and criminals back to their home countries because the EU Department (European Court of Human Rights) does not allow deportation without a long drawn out Legal process. Also there are petty rules and regulations which limit us in many ways.

David Cameron has promised a referendum as to whether we stay in or get out, but not until just after he is re-elected in our general election in May next year.

Ed Milliband, the Labour leader wants the UK to stay in the EU. Milliband is a bit of a joke here. I won't go into it, but he does not seem a 'leader.'

UKIP (United Kingdom Independence Party) is the rising star to many people. It's vote is mainly from middle-aged to elderly lower and middle-class people. They have candidates for parliament (no Members in parliament yet), who have been and are rather loose cannons, speaking without thinking carefully about the immigration issue. There seems no finesse in them and I believe they are almost yob-like. Nigel Farage is their beer swilling smirking leader and makes me want to be sick. No way can he ever lead the UK! UKIP is just a two-trick pony. They only talk about the problem with our being a member of the EU, and our problems with over-population and immigration. Last week on of the Conservative members of parliament has decided to change alliance and join the UKIP party. A massive scandal. However he is doing the right thing and calling a by-election of the town he represents so he is on an even playing field. Opinion polls of that town say he is going to win the by-election with a massive majority (64% would vote for him and 25% vote for the Conservative representative who is replacing him). If he does win he will be the first UKIP member of parliament.

The last thing we need is UKIP gaining ground. Firstly because they will never win the general election next year. That would be absolutely impossible. Secondly UKIP are likely to take people's votes who would normally vote for Conservatives. Therefore with less people voting Conservative and more voting for UKIP, it may mean that Labour will win the election. A disaster for the country, they will mess up the economy and undo all the good work Cameron has done. Not only that, but with Labour in power the country will not get the referendum on whether we should stay or leave the EU. The people here should get the choice to stay or leave. A vote for UKIP would not be beneficial as that would get Labour in power and we won't have a choice.

Phew, I need a cuppa cha.
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Old 08-31-2014, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: David Cameron plans to seize terror suspects' passports

are political high-jinx in DNA?
i was told by Latin friends in Spanish class that that first trade/socio agreement western Europeans passed, caused Spanish farmers to have to give away oranges in a "fruit and vegetable war" to compete and draw customers. we all wrote our congressmen (the rest of the class) imploring them not to do NAFTA but guess what? both parties were for it.
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Old 08-31-2014, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: David Cameron plans to seize terror suspects' passports

good info P'Flamingo

wasn't someone in another thread asking about examples international law overshadowing national sovereignty and public will.

the E.U.. was suppose to be good, but it's clearly stripped the people of nat'l local control. And given over sovereignty to a remote group of International controllers.
Here in the U.S. NAFTA and GAT were the lead in for North American rather than American laws in economic trade matters to dominate. The "Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America or SPP" with it's undemocratic closed door work was to continue that slide. Another semi secret American sovereignty busting intn'l treaty is the Trans-Pacific Partnership or TTP.
Leadership from both parties quietly but steadily support these efforts in the face of popular opposition.

the study on HOW MUCH CONTROL we have of our gov't compared to the fat cat elites applies here.
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