Has our biased support for Israel undermined respect for American ideals?

[Billo_Really]

These people are protesting Israeli occupation of Palestine
Are they "jew-haters?"

Here's the list of attendees!

Signed: Political parties, social organizations and young women and men Palestinian and Israeli activists (in alphabetical order)

Association of Palestinian Democratic Youth (Palestine)
Association of Progressive Students (Palestine)
Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Palestine)
Democratic Front for Peace and Equality (Israel)
Democratic Teachers’ Union (Palestine)
Democratic Union of Professionals in Palestine (Palestine)
Democratic Women’s Movement in Israel (Israel)
National Campaign for Return of the Bodies of Arab and Palestinian Martyrs Captured by the Israeli Government (Palestine)
Palestinian People’s Party (Palestine)
Popular Campaign for the Boycott of Israeli Products (Palestine)
Progressive Workers’ Union (Palestine)
Tarabut-Hithabrut – Arab-Jewish Movement for Social and Political Change (Israel)
The Alternative Information Center (Palestine/Israel)
Union of Palestinian Farmers’ Unions (Palestine)
Union of One World for Justice (Palestine)
Union of Palestinian Working Women (Palestine)
Workers’ Unity Bloc (Palestine)

Here's their mission statement!

Moved by our aspiration to attain a just and fair peace in the region, a peace that is truly essential for the peoples of the region and can assist in promoting the struggle for justice and progress for everyone, we – Palestinian and Israeli social and political forces, representatives of women’s associations and young people from both sides of the Green Line – emphasise the need for a joint struggle, with the goal of liberating the peoples of the region from colonialism and hegemony, particularly that of Zionism, halting the occupation and Israeli military aggression and supporting the just struggle of the Palestinian people for fulfillment of its right for self-determination in accordance with the decisions of the international community.

So, I'll ask the question again...

Are Jewish-Israeli-citizen's, who join forces with Palestinian social groups, in Israel, to protest the ongoing, 40 year occupation of Palestine, by the Israeli government, "jew-haters?"

[Mikeyy]

Originally Posted by Billo_Really

[FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="3"][CENTER]These people are protesting Israeli occupation of Palestine
Are they "jew-haters

So, I'll ask the question again...

Are Jewish-Israeli-citizen's, who join forces with Palestinian social groups, in Israel, to protest the ongoing, 40 year occupation of Palestine, by the Israeli government, "jew-haters?"

I'm gonna say they are all anti semetic because it really means anything they do is right because they are chosen.

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Mikeyy

I'm gonna say they are all anti semetic because it really means anything they do is right because they are chosen.

But what do you do, when the "chosen", choose Palestinian's?

What kind of choice is that?

[Mikeyy]

Originally Posted by Billo_Really

But what do you do, when the "chosen", choose Palestinian's?

What kind of choice is that?

They are brainwashed just like Cain says black people are. Like zombies, they have no reason.

[MintJulep]

Originally Posted by Billo_Really

These people are protesting Israeli occupation of Palestine
Are they "jew-haters?"

Here's the list of attendees!

Here's their mission statement!

So, I'll ask the question again...

Are Jewish-Israeli-citizen's, who join forces with Palestinian social groups, in Israel, to protest the ongoing, 40 year occupation of Palestine, by the Israeli government, "jew-haters?"

No, they're called self-loathing turncoats.

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Mikeyy

They are brainwashed just like Cain says black people are. Like zombies, they have no reason.

You know what I think?

I don't think this has anything to do with Judaism, anti-semitism, jew-hate, right-to-exist, defending an ally, terrorist sympathizing, etc., to these people who constantly spew this crap out whenever someone say's something about Israel, that is even remotely negative in nature; to them, if you aren't goosestepping to the beat of their ideology as loud as you can be, you are the enemy! And they will put that label on anyone. They will call jews, "jew-haters", if the need arises.

I think these people are so consumed by their ideology, they'd even go so far as to call Jesus, the anti-Christ, if he said to love a liberal, during his second coming.

[Billo_Really]

As far as the thread topic goes...

...this biased support for Israel, is un-American.

Because American's live in country, that is based on the rule of law.
Part of being an American, is respect for the law.
One of our American values, is obeying laws. Even ones we don't like.
We believe in civil rights.
Another American value, is the belief that no one should be punished for a crime they didn't commit.
We believe in due process of law.
Truth and justice, IS the American way.

So, with that being said, when someone supports Israeli war crimes (no respect for the law); Israeli occupation in the OPT (against all international laws); Israeli apartheid (denying civil rights); the economic blockade of Gaza (punishing people who've commited no crime); Israeli treatment of the Palesitinian's (denying due process of law); demonizing Palestinian's (no truth or justice); they are going against everything American's stand for.

And if there is any doubt, as to which country these people are more loyal too, just ask them to comment on the incident with the USS Liberty.

Their response to that question, will give you the answer you seek.

[lackluster]

I ain't got nuttin against thems blacks. Just because they are criminals and I don't want one of their boys marryun my sister, that don't mean I'm a racist."

"What do you mean, I'm a homophobe? Just castrate thems sissy boy faggots and be done with it. Ain't no phobia about that at all".

"Antisemite? I ain't none of thems antisemiticals. I just want to destroy their country and side with those who want to kill all the bastards. Heck, we all know they gots us by the balls and do nothing but steal, so who the hell are you calling me an atisemitical?"

[Coyote]

Originally Posted by lackluster

What you said is that there there is a difference between Jews and Israel, the implication being that it is perfectly acceptable to hate as long as you can try to fool people into thinking your hatred is aimed at a political body rather than a people. It's like copping a plea that it is o.k. to direct constant abuse towards Japan, because Japan and the Japanese are somehow different.

No, again you totally are so intent into reading your own assumptions into other people's words you don't hear them because you've already decided what they mean at the first hint of criticism of Israel.

There is a difference between Jews and Israel.
No implications.

First: Jews are an ethnic/religious group. Israel is multiple things: an ancient nation that ceased to exist thousands of years ago; a modern political state that was formed in 1948; a concept of a homeland that unites a diaspora grown diverse and with conflicting views of what it means to be a Jewish state.

So, what Israel are we talking about? And is Israel a monolithic entity inseperable from being a Jew?

Second - the concept of hate. What does hate have to do with it? Is every criticism of Israel's policies nothing more than redirected hatred towards Jews? How rational is that? It's not - it's absurd.

Are those who criticize Obama's policies then racist because they disagree with his economic agenda?

Did you hate the Russian people because the Soviet government was so hostile? (I sure didn't like the USSR government's policies, but the people were funny, deep, and very likeable).

Do those who oppose America's invasion of Iraq haters of the American people?

What about those who are critical of the Vatican for it's policies concerning priests accused of molesting children? Are they Catholic-haters? (never mind that many Catholics themselves are upset at this?).

Is any criticism to be considered "a constant stream of abuse" - or is it sometimes justified? If it can't be talked about in a rational fashion - then how can solutions ever be arrived at?

Not everybody sees through that b.s., but I sure do. Antisemites can try to hide behind this phony distinction all they want, but when they take up positions so completely hostile to Israel that they repeat the mindless propaganda of genocidal antisemites who wish to kill Jews for being Jews, no amout of self serving sophisrty will change the true nature of what they stand for.

That's total crazy talk and all it does is stifle debate behind a curtain of hostility, name-calling and - hate.

[Billo_Really]

Originally Posted by Coyote

No, again you totally are so intent into reading your own assumptions into other people's words you don't hear them because you've already decided what they mean at the first hint of criticism of Israel.

There is a difference between Jews and Israel.
No implications.

First: Jews are an ethnic/religious group. Israel is multiple things: an ancient nation that ceased to exist thousands of years ago; a modern political state that was formed in 1948; a concept of a homeland that unites a diaspora grown diverse and with conflicting views of what it means to be a Jewish state.

So, what Israel are we talking about? And is Israel a monolithic entity inseperable from being a Jew?

Second - the concept of hate. What does hate have to do with it? Is every criticism of Israel's policies nothing more than redirected hatred towards Jews? How rational is that? It's not - it's absurd.

Are those who criticize Obama's policies then racist because they disagree with his economic agenda?

Did you hate the Russian people because the Soviet government was so hostile? (I sure didn't like the USSR government's policies, but the people were funny, deep, and very likeable).

Do those who oppose America's invasion of Iraq haters of the American people?

What about those who are critical of the Vatican for it's policies concerning priests accused of molesting children? Are they Catholic-haters? (never mind that many Catholics themselves are upset at this?).

Is any criticism to be considered "a constant stream of abuse" - or is it sometimes justified? If it can't be talked about in a rational fashion - then how can solutions ever be arrived at?

That's total crazy talk and all it does is stifle debate behind a curtain of hostility, name-calling and - hate.

That is about as lucid a point, one can make on this issue (Israeli criticism). The examples were perfect. I wish I could express myself as succinctly as you do!

I do have one example to add. I think I've said this before, but it's worth repeating. I used to know this Iranian architect that had jewish friends who hated Israeli's. Now why is that? Maybe it had something to do with Israeli policy and nothing to do with Judaism. I'm just guessing. I've never met them, so I really don't know.

But I do know, if you want to talk about Israel and Judaism in the same breath, that according to the Torah, the jews are to remain in exile until God comes back down to earth to create a nation for the Israelites. So, only God can create the nation of Israel. Not man. Or, in this case, zionist man. This is why orthodox jews have a problem with the current Israeli state.

So, IMO, there's no way you can argue jews and Israeli's are the same thing and are completely interchangable.