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History, Geography, & Military Discuss Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over coronaviru at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by mr wonder Writing some letters about a problem to the wrong people in the Navy is pretty ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2020, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Writing some letters about a problem to the wrong people in the Navy is pretty far from "robbing a bank". but i get the point.
But i have to ask this question, if writing letter to the wrong person could save a sailors life would it be worth going outside proper " procedure" ?
I mean procedure sounds nice and all but is it to be held up against the lives of crewman?
Procedure is not a bank being robbed.
The Chain of Command is basically the lowest ranking member and the highest ranking one holding on to a chain hanging over a tightrope, and some feet below is a pool filled with crocodiles. Which of them can break the chain safely?

Minus the puppet show, the commanding officer can do all sorts of things contrary to his office to save one person's life, or more. Regardless, he is the one who will pay the consequences if the "train jumps the tracks". If he cannot go along with that responsibility, he does not need to be in charge.

Civilians need to stay out of Military matters, no pointing of fingers meant.
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Old 04-16-2020, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
The Chain of Command is basically the lowest ranking member and the highest ranking one holding on to a chain hanging over a tightrope, and some feet below is a pool filled with crocodiles. Which of them can break the chain safely?

Minus the puppet show, the commanding officer can do all sorts of things contrary to his office to save one person's life, or more. Regardless, he is the one who will pay the consequences if the "train jumps the tracks". If he cannot go along with that responsibility, he does not need to be in charge.
Makes sense.
I don't have an issue with that.
In most cases I suspect the chain of command and procedure keeps order and saves lives.


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Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
Civilians need to stay out of Military matters, no pointing of fingers meant.
I hear you. And i'd agree "civilians" ...and former military too(?)... shouldn't have much say (if any) in military day to day operations. Other than congress telling the the military when the military should or shouldn't blowup stuff and kill people of course.
However, "Civilians staying out of military matters" idea does strike me kinda the wrong way in general.
The military isn't some autonomous business operation unlinked to civilians .
I've got family in the military, past and present, but here's my main thing, I've been on a couple of military bases and seen the chain of command boards with the names and photos of that base's or ship's chain of command. At the top of each one I've seen is the photo of president of the U.S..
Who is a civilian...
And I've always wanted to add 2 items to the chain-of-command boards.
Just above the president's photo there should be a picture of the constitution of the U.S. and above that some representation of "we the people" ...civilians. that grant the authority to do anything for us all.
I have plenty of respect for the military and the work they do but there's more than one reason that the founding father did not want a standing army.
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Old 04-16-2020, 03:46 PM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Makes sense.
I don't have an issue with that.
In most cases I suspect the chain of command and procedure keeps order and saves lives.




I hear you. And i'd agree "civilians" ...and former military too(?)... shouldn't have much say (if any) in military day to day operations. Other than congress telling the the military when the military should or shouldn't blowup stuff and kill people of course.
However, "Civilians staying out of military matters" idea does strike me kinda the wrong way in general.
The military isn't some autonomous business operation unlinked to civilians .
I've got family in the military, past and present, but here's my main thing, I've been on a couple of military bases and seen the chain of command boards with the names and photos of that base's or ship's chain of command. At the top of each one I've seen is the photo of president of the U.S..
Who is a civilian...
And I've always wanted to add 2 items to the chain-of-command boards.
Just above the president's photo there should be a picture of the constitution of the U.S. and above that some representation of "we the people" ...civilians. that grant the authority to do anything for us all.
I have plenty of respect for the military and the work they do but there's more than one reason that the founding father did not want a standing army.


Once Military, always Military, but with civilian status. Civilians do have some say in military matters. That's why a civilian, the POTUS, is in charge of the Armed Forces. Other than that, civilians need to bow out. Do you want a brain surgeon telling an electrician you hired how to do his job? Do you want an anti-gun weenie telling a rough man who eats his enemies for supper how to deal with the enemy? Do you wan--, never mind the rest. I think you get my drift.

I like the idea of your Chain of Command board.
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Writing some letters about a problem to the wrong people in the Navy is pretty far from "robbing a bank". but i get the point.
But i have to ask this question, if writing letter to the wrong person could save a sailors life would it be worth going outside proper " procedure" ?
It would depend on the procedure...In this case, the letter was intentionally made to be leaked to embarrass the chain of command...That won't "save lives" under any scenario...
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Old 04-17-2020, 10:25 AM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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It would depend on the procedure...In this case, the letter was intentionally made to be leaked to embarrass the chain of command...That won't "save lives" under any scenario...
Correct, He purposely sent it to a Journalist. And maybe I would be more understanding about it if he had went through all the proper channels, and could show that he was being ignored by his superiors.

But he contacted the media at the same time he contacted his superiors.

That should NEVER be ok.
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Old 04-17-2020, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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Originally Posted by Dog Man View Post
Correct, He purposely sent it to a Journalist. And maybe I would be more understanding about it if he had went through all the proper channels, and could show that he was being ignored by his superiors.

But he contacted the media at the same time he contacted his superiors.

That should NEVER be ok.
OK just to be clear again.
He did NOT send the letter to the media.
The US Navy commander of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier reportedly sent out a "signal flare" a four-page emailed letter outlining the urgency of a coronavirus outbreak aboard his ship to fellow naval aviators because he believed his immediate supervisor would not have allowed the letter to be sent.

Capt. Brett Crozier of the USS Theodore Roosevelt may have been worried that Rear Adm. Stuart Baker, his immediate boss and the commander of the carrier strike group, would not have allowed him to send the warning letter to Navy leaders, according to the top Navy official who fired him as told to a Washington Post columnist.
Baker reportedly confirmed to Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly that Crozier's instincts were correct: "He was right. I wouldn't."
The account comes from Modly, who relieved Crozier from his command of the USS Theodore Roosevelt and its 4,800 crew members on Thursday. Modly reasoned that Crozier should not have sent the "blast out" email to 20 or 30 recipients and that there was a "proper way of handling" his concerns. "The letter was sent over non-secure, unclassified email even though that ship possesses some of the most sophisticated communications and encryption equipment in the fleet," Modly said Thursday....
https://www.businessinsider.com/bret...nicking-2020-4

Weather or not he should have done it is not what i'm clarifying here just the fact that he did NOT send it to "the media".


And also
...At sea on March 24, the first three cases were reported. Within 24 hours, the number of infected more than doubled. Each subsequent day yielded more confirmed cases, numbering 615 as of Wednesday. A 41-year-old chief petty officer became the first to succumb to COVID-19 on Monday, four days after being found unresponsive by other quarantined sailors.
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...cials-believe/
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Old 04-17-2020, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
OK just to be clear again.
He did NOT send the letter to the media.
The US Navy commander of a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier reportedly sent out a "signal flare" a four-page emailed letter outlining the urgency of a coronavirus outbreak aboard his ship to fellow naval aviators because he believed his immediate supervisor would not have allowed the letter to be sent.

Capt. Brett Crozier of the USS Theodore Roosevelt may have been worried that Rear Adm. Stuart Baker, his immediate boss and the commander of the carrier strike group, would not have allowed him to send the warning letter to Navy leaders, according to the top Navy official who fired him as told to a Washington Post columnist.
Baker reportedly confirmed to Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly that Crozier's instincts were correct: "He was right. I wouldn't."
The account comes from Modly, who relieved Crozier from his command of the USS Theodore Roosevelt and its 4,800 crew members on Thursday. Modly reasoned that Crozier should not have sent the "blast out" email to 20 or 30 recipients and that there was a "proper way of handling" his concerns. "The letter was sent over non-secure, unclassified email even though that ship possesses some of the most sophisticated communications and encryption equipment in the fleet," Modly said Thursday....
https://www.businessinsider.com/bret...nicking-2020-4

Weather or not he should have done it is not what i'm clarifying here just the fact that he did NOT send it to "the media".


And also
...At sea on March 24, the first three cases were reported. Within 24 hours, the number of infected more than doubled. Each subsequent day yielded more confirmed cases, numbering 615 as of Wednesday. A 41-year-old chief petty officer became the first to succumb to COVID-19 on Monday, four days after being found unresponsive by other quarantined sailors.
https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...cials-believe/



I read that he emailed it to a "Friend", who was a journalist. That journalist put it out through some sort of media, and that stuff travels very fast.

Correct me if that is not right, that is what I read.
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Old 04-17-2020, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dog Man View Post
I read that he emailed it to a "Friend", who was a journalist. That journalist put it out through some sort of media, and that stuff travels very fast.
Correct me if that is not right, that is what I read.
I never heard or read that report, if you can find it let me know.
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Old 04-17-2020, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

FYI
" ...as of early Monday morning. With about 92-percent of TR’s crew tested for coronavirus as of Sunday afternoon, the 585 positive sailors aboard that ship made up more than half of the Navy’s cases...."

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/y...-to-over-2500/
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