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History, Geography, & Military Discuss Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over coronaviru at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by Jeerleader The Captain was at a minimum naive and stupid to state that a first line ship ...

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Old 04-09-2020, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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Originally Posted by Jeerleader View Post
The Captain was at a minimum naive and stupid to state that a first line ship in our Navy, the core of our most important naval defense structure, the Carrier Strike Group, (including a guided missile cruiser and five guided missile destroyers), was unfit for battle.

If he was commanding a buoy tender nobody would care but his "non-secure unclassified email" sent to a "broad array of people" rather than up the chain of command is a failure of leadership. To publicly announce that the ship would be offloading the entire crew on Guam and have the ship sit useless for service (along with the associated strike group) with only a skeleton crew to maintain the reactor, threatened the defense of the USA.

That is unconscionable and unforgivable. He should have been held for court martial and stripped of rank and dishonorably discharged . . . He's lucky he was only relieved of command and had his mental faculties, as related to military command, assessed.
OK let me understand this. in peacetime, a leaked email from a carrier About the spread of a virus killing the crew. is unconscionable and unforgivable dishonorably and mentally questionable.
So it'd have better to let the crew catch the virus, be sick and dying and the ship's effectiveness be completely incapacitated for real ... and no one know about but the navy higher ups.
that's better than making the mistake of an unclassified letter to pertinent navy personnel keeping a crew alive and healthy and a ship disinfected so that if there is a real conflict there are trained sailors and a clean ship available?

I'm sorry i just don't get the logic here.
to me Firing the captain is just a several steps away from the police arresting the father in the park for not social distancing.
It's an adherence to rules over common sense.



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Having spent 8 years in the USAF, this is a HUGE dereliction of duty. He ran away from a friggin Nuclear Aircraft carrier, and told the world it was on its own. He should undergo a general courts martial, and be put in prison.
He needs to be made an example.
Maybe i missed the part of the story where he ran away from the carrier. Can you post a link to that part of the story. If he did something like that then I'd change my view a bit.
but all I've seen so far is that he just wanted to dock the ship and get his men tested, and out of dangerous confinement. Have the ship cleared and cleaned and ready for service.


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I agree. He left the ship because he didn't want to catch the virus, and still ended up getting it. How would he have done in battle?
Did he say he wanted to leave the ship, or that he wanted his crew off the ship? Again i'm not sure where this info come from please post a link.

and how can we know if he didn't catch it ON the ship with the other crew members who got it? how would he command the ship if he's on a ventilator? or dead? How would the carrier defend the nation if the crew are sick on their bunks?

I'm just not understanding the outrage here.
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Old 04-09-2020, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
I'm just not understanding the outrage here.
He appears to have jumped the Chain of Command, from what I see. I see no outrage that you speak of.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:39 AM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
OK let me understand this. in peacetime, a leaked email from a carrier About the spread of a virus killing the crew. is unconscionable and unforgivable dishonorably and mentally questionable.
So it'd have better to let the crew catch the virus, be sick and dying and the ship's effectiveness be completely incapacitated for real ... and no one know about but the navy higher ups.
that's better than making the mistake of an unclassified letter to pertinent navy personnel keeping a crew alive and healthy and a ship disinfected so that if there is a real conflict there are trained sailors and a clean ship available?

I'm sorry i just don't get the logic here.
to me Firing the captain is just a several steps away from the police arresting the father in the park for not social distancing.
It's an adherence to rules over common sense.




Maybe i missed the part of the story where he ran away from the carrier. Can you post a link to that part of the story. If he did something like that then I'd change my view a bit.
but all I've seen so far is that he just wanted to dock the ship and get his men tested, and out of dangerous confinement. Have the ship cleared and cleaned and ready for service.




Did he say he wanted to leave the ship, or that he wanted his crew off the ship? Again i'm not sure where this info come from please post a link.

and how can we know if he didn't catch it ON the ship with the other crew members who got it? how would he command the ship if he's on a ventilator? or dead? How would the carrier defend the nation if the crew are sick on their bunks?

I'm just not understanding the outrage here.

The way I read it, he wanted most of the men to get off the biggest, nuclear powered war machine in the world. He wanted 5,000 men to get off and possibly infect the island of Guam.

His superiors received the letter at the same time the newspapers were sending it out to the public. It wasn't as if he was sending letters to the higher ups and they were ignoring him. It sounds more like he was freaking out, and did something rash, or stupid, if you will.
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Old 04-09-2020, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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OK let me understand this. in peacetime, a leaked email from a carrier About the spread of a virus killing the crew.
Holy Christ, pull yourself together Karen.

The chance of anyone dying on the ship is minimal. The death rate for young, healthy persons -- like would be expected for the majority of the personnel in the military generally -- is very, very low. Here's the death stats for NYC as of April 1st, only 2 deaths out of 1139, occurred for 18 - 44 year old healthy persons:




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is unconscionable and unforgivable dishonorably and mentally questionable.
Yes. If he wigs out over 3% of his crew getting sick what the hell is he going to do under fire? He must be ready and willing to make decisions that he KNOWS would instantly and brutally and and painfully cause the deaths of many of his crew.

The Captain's actions and the emotional Gretta-like (HOW DARE YOU!) backlash against the SecNav stand as a perfect example of the wussification (Obamification) of our military.



And note that the breakouts in the graph above should make us question the ENTIRE national response to the Chi-Com Bat Eating Flu.

.
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:29 AM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

I'm pretty sure the capt didn't want the crew walking around Guam Willy Nilly, he asked for quarantine on shore i believe.

as far the general request and battle readyness etc

"In his letter, Crozier wrote that the carrier could still go into battle and win, because “in combat we are willing to take certain risks that are not acceptable in peacetime. However, we are not at war, and therefore cannot allow a single Sailor to perish as a result of this pandemic unnecessarily.”


Makes sense to me.
Unless you folks think we should let sailors get sick and maybe die with random diseases just to show how big our balls are.
then OK sure, that's great thinking.

As far as the letter getting out and who he wrote to about it that may have been crappy protocol or outright illegal by navy standards I don't know.
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:37 AM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

[QUOTE=mr wonder;987037]I'm pretty sure the capt didn't want the crew walking around Guam Willy Nilly, he asked for quarantine on shore i believe.

as far the general request and battle readyness etc

"In his letter, Crozier wrote that the carrier could still go into battle and win, because “in combat we are willing to take certain risks that are not acceptable in peacetime. However, we are not at war, and therefore cannot allow a single Sailor to perish as a result of this pandemic unnecessarily.”


Makes sense to me.
Unless you folks think we should let sailors get sick and maybe die with random diseases just to show how big our balls are.
then OK sure, that's great thinking.

As far as the letter getting out and who he wrote to about it that may have been crappy protocol or outright illegal by navy standards I don't know.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is the biggest problem. And I believe he needed permission to abandon the biggest baddest war machine in the world.

He was looking for media permission at the same time he asked his superiors.
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:44 AM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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...
As far as the letter getting out and who he wrote to about it that may have been crappy protocol or outright illegal by navy standards I don't know.[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is the biggest problem. And I believe he needed permission to abandon the biggest baddest war machine in the world.

He was looking for media permission at the same time he asked his superiors.
I'm not sure he was looking for media attention. I don't think he's been formally accused of or that's there's evidence of the capt releasing his letter to media. It looks like someone on his questionable navy mailing list did.

But As far as the crews health is concerned it looks like.
"Some 615 Roosevelt crew members have now tested positive for the coronavirus; five are in hospitals, with one in intensive care, and one has died."
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:24 AM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

I don't believe that anyone was questioning the Captain about the need to get his crew the attention they needed. The problem was that the Captain went outside the chain of command. That is the problem.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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I don't believe that anyone was questioning the Captain about the need to get his crew the attention they needed. The problem was that the Captain went outside the chain of command. That is the problem.
Exactly...

The "ultimate good" sounds nice, but the procedure wasn't followed...It's like saying you needed to feed your children so it's perfectly reasonable to rob a bank...
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Old 04-16-2020, 01:00 PM
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Default Re: Acting Navy secretary quits after he ripped captain pleading for help over corona

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Exactly...

The "ultimate good" sounds nice, but the procedure wasn't followed...It's like saying you needed to feed your children so it's perfectly reasonable to rob a bank...
Writing some letters about a problem to the wrong people in the Navy is pretty far from "robbing a bank". but i get the point.
But i have to ask this question, if writing letter to the wrong person could save a sailors life would it be worth going outside proper " procedure" ?
I mean procedure sounds nice and all but is it to be held up against the lives of crewman?
Procedure is not a bank being robbed.
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