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History, Geography, & Military Discuss Jesse Ventura Calls For The Arrest Of Donald Trump at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by loboloco Given your understanding of the constitution, Trump is over the line. Given intelligent consideration Trump might ...

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Old 06-02-2018, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Jesse Ventura Calls For The Arrest Of Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by loboloco View Post
Given your understanding of the constitution, Trump is over the line. Given intelligent consideration Trump might be over the line.
The so-called abuse you refer to didn't start with Truman, but goes all the way back to Washington.
I don't think Washington started any wars without congressional approval lobo.
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: Jesse Ventura Calls For The Arrest Of Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
I don't think Washington started any wars without congressional approval lobo.
Then you should actually read a little bit of history. The man sent federal troops against three separate nations while he was president. The fact they were American native nations makes no difference.
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Old 06-02-2018, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Jesse Ventura Calls For The Arrest Of Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by loboloco View Post
Then you should actually read a little bit of history. The man sent federal troops against three separate nations while he was president. The fact they were American native nations makes no difference.
Ok i did a bit research and Yes Washington did initiate Native American Wars.. after Congress in September 29, 1789 Granted Washington Authority to do so.
not a formal declaration but similar to other congressional resolutions to follow. So From what i can tell Washington did NOT simply take it on his own authority to act. And even after the had been grated authority to "respond" to what they then considered native American "Attacks" he didn't do so until U.S. persons/land were "attacked".
I haven't read in depth enough to see if the lands were disputed and/or if the Native American attacks were unprovoked. but in any case, the situation of a neighboring nation attacking the U.S. and U.S. citizens calls for a military response.

That's vastly different from a supposed chemical attack on foreign people by a foreign power in a country half a world away.

So if the fact that they were American native nations makes no difference then it puts Trump in a much worse position. Syria is not even close to US soil and no Americans were harmed or even close to any danger.

I suspect that most would give Washington a pass for fighting wars on the national boarders with attacking foreign nations.
While Trump has gone FAR beyond any semblance of congressional or constitutional authority in attacking Syria with bombs and troops.
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Old 06-02-2018, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: Jesse Ventura Calls For The Arrest Of Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Ok i did a bit research and Yes Washington did initiate Native American Wars.. after Congress in September 29, 1789 Granted Washington Authority to do so.
not a formal declaration but similar to other congressional resolutions to follow. So From what i can tell Washington did NOT simply take it on his own authority to act. And even after the had been grated authority to "respond" to what they then considered native American "Attacks" he didn't do so until U.S. persons/land were "attacked".
I haven't read in depth enough to see if the lands were disputed and/or if the Native American attacks were unprovoked. but in any case, the situation of a neighboring nation attacking the U.S. and U.S. citizens calls for a military response.

That's vastly different from a supposed chemical attack on foreign people by a foreign power in a country half a world away.

So if the fact that they were American native nations makes no difference then it puts Trump in a much worse position. Syria is not even close to US soil and no Americans were harmed or even close to any danger.

I suspect that most would give Washington a pass for fighting wars on the national boarders with attacking foreign nations.
While Trump has gone FAR beyond any semblance of congressional or constitutional authority in attacking Syria with bombs and troops.
Actually, Trump is working under a congressional resolution also. And, so far, has complied with the War Powers Act. Once again, no difference. Attacking a foreign power, under your definition and claim that only congress can initiate military action, both were just as wrong.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:09 PM
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Default Re: Jesse Ventura Calls For The Arrest Of Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by loboloco View Post
Actually, Trump is working under a congressional resolution also. And, so far, has complied with the War Powers Act. Once again, no difference. Attacking a foreign power, under your definition and claim that only congress can initiate military action, both were just as wrong.
What congressional resolution? There are none that authorize force against Syria.
And not under the war powers acts becasue it doesn't fit the criteria.
Congress woman Tulsi Gabbard ask Mattis about the War Powers Act just before the Trump Attacked:

GABBARD: Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen, for your service. You know, the President has indicated recently his intention to launch U.S. military attacks against Syria. Article one of the Constitution gives Congress the sole power to declare war. Congress has not done so against the Syrian government. Section 3 of the War Powers Resolution requires the president to consult with Congress before introducing U.S. Armed Forces into situations of hostilities. Section 2 of the War Powers Resolution clarifies the constitutional powers of the President as commander-in-chief. In article 2, which you referenced, Secretary Mattis, to introduce forces into hostilities only pursuant to
1.) a declaration of war,
2.) specific statutory authorization or
3.) a national emergency created by an attack upon the U.S., its territories, possessions or Armed Forces.

Syria’s not declared war against the U.S. or threatened the U.S. The launch of 59 missiles against Syria by Trump last year was illegal and did not meet any of those criteria in the War Powers Resolution. The consolidated Appropriations Act of 2018 which was signed into law by President Trump states that none of the funds made available by this Act may be used with respect to Syria in contravention of the War Powers Resolution, including for the introduction of U.S. Armed Military Forces into hostilities in Syria.

My question is, will the President uphold the Constitution, the War Powers Resolution, and comply with the law that he signed – that he signed – by obtaining authorization from Congress before launching U.S. military attacks against Syria?

MATTIS: Congresswoman, we have not yet made any decision to launch military attacks into Syria. I think that when you look back at President Obama sending the U.S. troops into Syria at the time he did, he also had to deal with this type of situation. Because we were going after a named terrorist group that was not actually named in the AUMF that put them in. This is a complex area, I’ll be the first to admit.

GABBARD: It is it is simple, however, what the Constitution requires. So while you’re correct in saying the President has not yet made a decision, my question is will he abide by the Constitution and comply with the law?
the obvious and honest answer is NO. No he won't, and no he didn't.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: Jesse Ventura Calls For The Arrest Of Donald Trump

what gets me is republicans in congress voted not to hold assaad accountable, now its ok cuz...donors?
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:41 AM
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Default Re: Jesse Ventura Calls For The Arrest Of Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
what gets me is republicans in congress voted not to hold assaad accountable, now its ok cuz...donors?
That silly statement definitely needs some explanation.
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Old 06-03-2018, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: Jesse Ventura Calls For The Arrest Of Donald Trump

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what gets me is republicans in congress voted not to hold assaad accountable, now its ok cuz...donors?
I had french toast for breakfast cuz republican donors said it was better than pancakes.
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