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History, Geography, & Military Discuss Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future' at the Political Forums; Yet many historians say the argument about preserving Southern history doesn't hold up when you consider the timing of when ...

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Old 08-24-2017, 12:15 PM
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Post Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Yet many historians say the argument about preserving Southern history doesn't hold up when you consider the timing of when the "beautiful" statues, as Trump called them, went up.

"Most of the people who were involved in erecting the monuments were not necessarily erecting a monument to the past," said Jane Dailey, an associate professor of history at the University of Chicago."But were rather, erecting them toward a white supremacist future."

The most recent comprehensive study of Confederate statues and monuments across the country was published by the Southern Poverty Law Center last year. A look at this chart shows huge spikes in construction twice during the 20th century: in the early 1900s, and then again in the 1950s and 60s. Both were times of extreme civil rights tension.

In the early 1900s, states were enacting Jim Crow laws to disenfranchise black Americans. In the middle part of the century, the civil rights movement pushed back against that segregation.

James Grossman, the executive director of the American Historical Association, says that the increase in statues and monuments was clearly meant to send a message.

"These statues were meant to create legitimate garb for white supremacy," Grossman said. "Why would you put a statue of Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson in 1948 in Baltimore?"
Why Were Confederate Monuments Built? : NPR

Some people proclaim these monuments are "historical" but ignore the reality of what history they are meant to institute.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:25 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Baloney.
They were built to honour the history of bravery and sacrifice which is what's got the iconoclasts in such an uproar.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Why Were Confederate Monuments Built? : NPR

Some people proclaim these monuments are "historical" but ignore the reality of what history they are meant to institute.
A hell of an assumption on Ms. Dailey's part, Assistant Professor.

In addition, timing of erecting such statues, if one follows from the post above, has to due with economics.... think about when the boom periods were in this country. Statues weren't a necessity, but when this country was doing economically well.....
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by Lollie View Post
Baloney.
They were built to honour the history of bravery and sacrifice which is what's got the iconoclasts in such an uproar.
That may be the feelings of today, but I don't believe that's why many of these statues and monuments were erected. It's too coincidental that we've had an upsurge of Confederate nostalgia whenever the issue of civil rights grew hot. I could be wrong but I think the reason behind it was so the racists back then could try to not-so-implicitly remind blacks of "their place" in society.

To remind everyone before I hear "OMG Wally's bringing up race!! Race caaaaaaard!!", I'm referring to folks and attitudes of folks back in those days, not today.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
That may be the feelings of today, but I don't believe that's why many of these statues and monuments were erected. It's too coincidental that we've had an upsurge of Confederate nostalgia whenever the issue of civil rights grew hot. I could be wrong but I think the reason behind it was so the racists back then could try to not-so-implicitly remind blacks of "their place" in society.

To remind everyone before I hear "OMG Wally's bringing up race!! Race caaaaaaard!!", I'm referring to folks and attitudes of folks back in those days, not today.
Good points Wally. And you may well be right. But it doesn't explain, much less justify, the very sudden change in our nation's discourse, to tear down or deface Christopher Columbus, George Washington, or Abe Lincoln.

Their images were not erected in bronze to remind or intimidate anyone to hold their proper place of subjugation.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
[]

Some people proclaim these monuments are "historical" but ignore the reality of what history they are meant to institute.
Don't you think perhaps, it is a history we should not forget or intentionally erase?


The Holocaust ovens are monuments, not so we can honor or remember, but prove to future generations who may well not believe such atrocities are possible.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by Lollie View Post
Baloney.
They were built to honour the history of bravery and sacrifice which is what's got the iconoclasts in such an uproar.
nope. that is just wrong. the jim crow era ushered most of the monuments into being erected.
compare them to the memorial put up shortly after the great virginia battle after the confederate women over saw the honoring of the dead from both sides. they placed sones with the names of all the states that fought there in a circle.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Good points Wally. And you may well be right. But it doesn't explain, much less justify, the very sudden change in our nation's discourse, to tear down or deface Christopher Columbus, George Washington, or Abe Lincoln.

Their images were not erected in bronze to remind or intimidate anyone to hold their proper place of subjugation.
Oh absolutely, and I too don't believe statues should be illegally destroyed or defaced, not even the Confederate ones. Whatever any state or city does is their business; but personally I wouldn't want monuments to the Confederacy on public lands, propped up by tax dollars. I'd be fine if something such as a private museum dedicated to Civil War, or general American and/or Confederate history wanted to use them for exhibits.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:55 PM
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Post Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollie View Post
Baloney.
They were built to honour the history of bravery and sacrifice which is what's got the iconoclasts in such an uproar.
Blind denial while refusing to look at any facts.



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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
A hell of an assumption on Ms. Dailey's part, Assistant Professor.
Really?
What's your title?



Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
In addition, timing of erecting such statues, if one follows from the post above, has to due with economics.... think about when the boom periods were in this country. Statues weren't a necessity, but when this country was doing economically well.....
Care to document this claim?
Or is it just some miscellaneous claim you made without even bothering to look at the facts?

Here's the distribution on the timeline for erecting these statues.
Did you even bother to look at the article to see the time-frames involved and the relevant building spurts?


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Don't you think perhaps, it is a history we should not forget or intentionally erase?
The Holocaust ovens are monuments, not so we can honor or remember, but prove to future generations who may well not believe such atrocities are possible.
The holocaust monuments are not being celebrated as historical proud points. As "heritage".
The equivalent would be if Germans were walking around and visiting these sites with nazi flags. That's not what is happening there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyWager
... personally I wouldn't want monuments to the Confederacy on public lands, propped up by tax dollars. I'd be fine if something such as a private museum dedicated to Civil War, or general American and/or Confederate history wanted to use them for exhibits.
Exactly.

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Old 08-24-2017, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

I'm desperately trying, really trying, to give a rat's ass what some snowflake believes about Confederate statues.
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