Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > Political Forums > History, Geography, & Military
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

History, Geography, & Military Discuss Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future' at the Political Forums; A graph from the SPLC, that's rich. Of course the statues mostly went up after the war of northern aggression, ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2017, 12:13 PM
MrLiberty's Avatar
professional curmudgeon
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,480
Thanks: 21,849
Thanked 18,562 Times in 11,912 Posts
Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

A graph from the SPLC, that's rich.

Of course the statues mostly went up after the war of northern aggression, that is when this was fresh in the minds of most people. The people wanted to honor their fallen soldiers who fought bravely for what they believed in, (BTW it was states rights.) To assume a different motive today only shows how little the left understands history.
__________________
Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war.

Donald Trump
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MrLiberty For This Useful Post:
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2017, 04:57 PM
foundit66's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Gender: Male
Posts: 24,342
Thanks: 9,640
Thanked 14,658 Times in 8,857 Posts
Post Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
A graph from the SPLC, that's rich.
Attack the messenger. How predictable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
Of course the statues mostly went up after the war of northern aggression...

Stop trying to rephrase the point to avoid acknowledging the significance.

The statues went up mostly half a century after the war. Decades later.
Why such a delay?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
... that is when this was fresh in the minds of most people.
ROFLMAO!!
ABOUT HALF A CENTURY LATER (and then another spike decades later) were the peaks.
Was that when it was "fresh in the minds of most people"???
__________________
“Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration.”
~Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2017, 05:01 PM
GottaGo's Avatar
Sanity is overrated.
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Between Oz and a hard place
Posts: 10,178
Thanks: 7,925
Thanked 6,463 Times in 4,194 Posts
Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The statues went up mostly half a century after the war. Decades later.
Why such a delay?

Oh! Oh! I can answer that! *waves hand in the air*

Because the Veterans of the Civil War were dying off.

__________________
Your life is the sum total of the choices you make.
If you can't laugh at yourself, you might as well get embalmed
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to GottaGo For This Useful Post:
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2017, 06:14 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 74
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Why Were Confederate Monuments Built? : NPR

Some people proclaim these monuments are "historical" but ignore the reality of what history they are meant to institute.
If you want to know about "supremacy," I invite you to take a look at my thread in the civil rights section. It's called, "Does anybody around here have any dignity?" You will have to zoom out a little to see it all.
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 09-07-2017, 09:16 AM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,903
Thanks: 1,421
Thanked 2,089 Times in 1,644 Posts
Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollie View Post
Baloney.
They were built to honour the history of bravery and sacrifice which is what's got the iconoclasts in such an uproar.
Robert E Lee, Stonewall Jackson, and those that participated in the Confederate cause were traitors involved in an armed insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States for the purpose of creating a tyrannical "fascist" nation based upon WASP Male Supremacy. Had it not been for Lincolns 64 general pardons for those that participated in this have been prosecuted for treason and numerous other crimes against the United States.

Robert E Lee, while notable for many positive deeds and accomplishments when loyal to the United States, just like Benedict Arnold, committed treason when he because the commanding general over the Army of Northern Virginia. Robert E Lee, as the Confederate commanding general, at the Battle of Gettysburg was responsible for the deaths of over 23,000 American soldiers that were defending the Constitution of the United States.

Had Lee been prosecuted for treason he would have been convicted of treason and executed.

If we want to honor those that fought in the Civil War then we should be honoring those that defended the US Constitution and not those that committed treason against it and that were responsible for the death and maiming of hundreds of thousands of US soldiers that fought to defend the Constitution from the "domestic" enemies of the Constitution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Would not the "offended" charge against the Private exhibits. Vandals don't really care about ownership. We have hate groups burning churches and synagogues. What would be the difference?

These "confederate" statues are not private statements on federal properties. Many are owned by the Government, some are enshrined in the military. What about those statues that are federally managed and protected?

And why are they suddenly trigger points for racist self indulgent snowflakes. Where is the respect and reason?

The actions of the Antifa, BLM and the Neo Nazi are provocations to the orderly society. The purpose is not to remove them but to incite angry emotions. Hell even the ACLU is under fire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
A graph from the SPLC, that's rich.

Of course the statues mostly went up after the war of northern aggression, that is when this was fresh in the minds of most people. The people wanted to honor their fallen soldiers who fought bravely for what they believed in, (BTW it was states rights.) To assume a different motive today only shows how little the left understands history.
This is a rehash of White Supremacist propaganda (i.e. lies based upon half-truths) so let's correct the lies.

It was not about States Rights. Then, as today, any issue of States Rights was a Constitutional issue based upon the protections in the Tenth Amendment.

Quote:
* Section 2.
The judicial Power (of the Supreme Court) shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority
Had any issue of States Rights existed then the Constitution delegates the United States Supreme Court with the jurisdiction and authority to resolve those issues. All of the States, upon becoming members of the United States, had agreed to this Constitutional remedy for the resolution of all disputes that arose under the Constitution. Had it been about "States Rights" then the issues of concern would have been adjudicated by the US Supreme Court.

The Confederacy was exclusively about a treasonous unlawful armed insurrection against the Constitutional government and not lawful secession from the United States. While the Constitution does not contain explicit provisions for the secession of a state from the United States there are several lawful means to accomplish that.

The obvious solution is a Constitutional Amendment that provides for a state to leave the United States.

An alternative, that might be subject to Supreme Court review, would be the mutual consent of the US Congress and the State Legislature, the two parties responsible for establishing the contract of "statehood" for each of the states, that would allow a State to withdraw from the Unite States.

The military response of the United States against the Confederacy was mandated by Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution that states:

Quote:
To provide for calling forth the Militia (US Military) to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
The Confederacy was a treasonous armed insurrection against the Laws and the Constitution of the United States and the Congress was responsible for suppressing that insurrection and re-establishing the Laws and Constitution in the territory occupied by the rebel troops.

We should finally note that the Confederate States of America never existed as a sovereign nation. It was nothing but a declaration by the treasonous rebel forces. To be recognized as a sovereign nation the Confederacy would have needed other governments to recognize it's sovereign status by establishment of treaties with the government but no nations ever agreed to any treaties with the Confederacy. The entire Confederacy was nothing more than armed rebel forces occupying territory that was a part of the United States of America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Good points Wally. And you may well be right. But it doesn't explain, much less justify, the very sudden change in our nation's discourse, to tear down or deface Christopher Columbus, George Washington, or Abe Lincoln.

Their images were not erected in bronze to remind or intimidate anyone to hold their proper place of subjugation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
Oh absolutely, and I too don't believe statues should be illegally destroyed or defaced, not even the Confederate ones. Whatever any state or city does is their business; but personally I wouldn't want monuments to the Confederacy on public lands, propped up by tax dollars. I'd be fine if something such as a private museum dedicated to Civil War, or general American and/or Confederate history wanted to use them for exhibits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300 H and H View Post
I consider these statues as fine pieces of art, and destruction would be more than just a waste. If you knew what was involved in making these pieces your perception might change, to come to see them as fine artwork..

Regards, Kirk
Yes, many of these statues are works of art and should be preserved but the art should be properly displayed in it's correct context. We, Americans, do not "honor" the traitor and every person that fought or participated in the Confederacy was involved in a treasonous armed insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States. The only "honorable" soldiers that fought in the "Civil War" were the Union Soldiers that fought and died to defend the US Constitution.

The treason must be remembered and the reason for the treason must be remembered. Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it and we don't want another armed insurrection by White (WASP Male) Supremacists against the Constitutional government of the United States and to forget or ignore this history is an invitation for another treasonous insurrection against our Constitutional government.

As noted a museum would be an appropriate for the display of these monuments that are, as noted, clearly pieces of art that should be preserved. The museum should also be accurate in presenting the context for the displaying of these works of art. I would suggest the following name for the Museum:

The American History Museum of White Supremacy and Treason

This museum could address the WASP Male Supremacy, including the institution of slavery, that the United State inherited from the British Colonial rule. How the America ideology opposed this form of tyranny as well as the social, economic, and political power of the WASP males that continued these institutions of tyranny in opposition to the American ideology when the United States was created. It can address the complexity of change where even some of the foremost founders including Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and James Madison inherited slaves and how they changed to ultimately reject the institution of slavery and WASP Male Supremacy with the adoption of our new national ideology. The museum can address the tyranny by Americans and the United States government since our founding created by WASP Male Supremacy and how it has harmed the people and our nation. The genocide of Native Americans, our racist immigration laws, and our oppression of religion (e.g. the early attacks on the Mormons that forced them out of the United States). It can document the insurrection of the White Supremacists of the Confederacy and the propaganda used to enlist Southerners to take up arms in an act of treason against the Constitutional government of the United States. It can document the invidious and murderous history of WASP Male Supremacy that continues to this day.

It would be a great museum laying bare all of the lies and misrepresentations of the Neo-Nazi White (WASP Male) Supremacists that, under different names from Aryan Nations to the Alt-Right, are the foster children of the KKK. It would also be the perfect place to preserve the "art" of White Supremacy and Treason that's inappropriately displayed in "places of honor" for those that were "traitors" not deserving of a place of honor in the United States.

The final piece of White Supremacist propaganda that I'll address is the false equivalency between "American Traitors" like Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson that participated in an Armed Insurrection Against the Constitutional government of the United States and the "American Patriots" like Thomas Jefferson and George Washington that were responsible for the creation of the Constitutional government of the United States.

The White Supremacists seem to believe that Americans are incapable of distinguishing between "American Traitors" and "American Patriots" and to some degree they're correct. It's obvious that President Trump is incapable of distinguishing between the two because he argued that there was an equivalency between the statues of American Patriots like Washington and Jefferson and American Traitors like Lee and Jackson after Charlottesville. It's sad that we have an American President that's swayed by White Supremacy propaganda (lies) because he has no knowledge about the history of the United States.
__________________
President Lincoln issued 64 pardons for war-related offences; 22 for conspiracy, 17 for treason, 12 for rebellion, 9 for holding an office under the Confederacy, and 4 for serving with the rebels.

The American Civil War was a White (WASP Male) Supremacist insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States. Every American that served the Confederate cause was a TRAITOR and every White Supremacist today is a Traitor and a Terrorist.

Last edited by ShivaTD; 09-07-2017 at 09:26 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2017, 10:14 AM
Conservative Sage
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 14,741
Thanks: 7,518
Thanked 8,333 Times in 5,185 Posts
Send a message via ICQ to AZRWinger
Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly View Post
I had never thoughtor cared much about statutes before this, but, with no explanation to the contrary from the right, the only explanation for having statues of the losers and enemies all over the country constructed during Klan high times must be their racist significance.
The "only" explanation ignores the obvious, having fought a long and bloody war to reunite the Union the last thing the victors wanted to allow were statues to their opponents. Fifty years removed there was no possibility of the Confederacy rising and the reconciliation of the Confederate States had been accomplished.

Of course the heyday of the Klan wouldn't have been possible without the warm embrace of Democrats like Woodrow Wilson. Naturally there is no hue and cry to purge memorials to the racist President, Leftist academics are even to ignore schools named after him.

The traitors and losers canard is nothing but a display of ignorance. We have to pretend that the Confederate States never petitioned to rejoin the Union and that Confederate leaders including Robert E Lee signed pledges of loyalty to it. No, we know better today, the new Civil war is fought on the streets by Leftist thugs while the Democrat controlled police look on as passive bystanders.
__________________
The Democrat's strategy for the Trump Presidency is the same one used by Stalin's secret police chief "show me the man and I will show you the crime."
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to AZRWinger For This Useful Post:
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2017, 10:17 AM
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,727
Thanks: 7,287
Thanked 6,153 Times in 3,740 Posts
Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Attack the messenger. How predictable.




Stop trying to rephrase the point to avoid acknowledging the significance.

The statues went up mostly half a century after the war. Decades later.
Why such a delay?


ROFLMAO!!
ABOUT HALF A CENTURY LATER (and then another spike decades later) were the peaks.
Was that when it was "fresh in the minds of most people"???
SPLC is extremely attackable.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2017, 04:48 PM
Surly's Avatar
PW Enlightenment
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,092
Thanks: 2,294
Thanked 2,577 Times in 1,993 Posts
Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

You are so partisan. Can we agree the klan is a bad thing whether it was Democrat or Republican? The CSA rebelled, they tried to destroy our country. They lost. They don't get statues. Pretend what you want, but the statues were not built because of admiration of Johnny Reb, they were built to remind nonWhiteAngalosaxonProtestants their place in this country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The "only" explanation ignores the obvious, having fought a long and bloody war to reunite the Union the last thing the victors wanted to allow were statues to their opponents. Fifty years removed there was no possibility of the Confederacy rising and the reconciliation of the Confederate States had been accomplished.

Of course the heyday of the Klan wouldn't have been possible without the warm embrace of Democrats like Woodrow Wilson. Naturally there is no hue and cry to purge memorials to the racist President, Leftist academics are even to ignore schools named after him.

The traitors and losers canard is nothing but a display of ignorance. We have to pretend that the Confederate States never petitioned to rejoin the Union and that Confederate leaders including Robert E Lee signed pledges of loyalty to it. No, we know better today, the new Civil war is fought on the streets by Leftist thugs while the Democrat controlled police look on as passive bystanders.
__________________
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
Geez surly, are you that blind or just that dumb.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Surly For This Useful Post:
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2017, 05:27 PM
ShivaTD's Avatar
Progressive Libertarian
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Immigrant to Arizona
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,903
Thanks: 1,421
Thanked 2,089 Times in 1,644 Posts
Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The "only" explanation ignores the obvious, having fought a long and bloody war to reunite the Union the last thing the victors wanted to allow were statues to their opponents. Fifty years removed there was no possibility of the Confederacy rising and the reconciliation of the Confederate States had been accomplished.

Of course the heyday of the Klan wouldn't have been possible without the warm embrace of Democrats like Woodrow Wilson. Naturally there is no hue and cry to purge memorials to the racist President, Leftist academics are even to ignore schools named after him.

The traitors and losers canard is nothing but a display of ignorance. We have to pretend that the Confederate States never petitioned to rejoin the Union and that Confederate leaders including Robert E Lee signed pledges of loyalty to it. No, we know better today, the new Civil war is fought on the streets by Leftist thugs while the Democrat controlled police look on as passive bystanders.
Please refrain from White Supremacist propaganda that cites revisionist history.

Here's a more historically accurate explanation.

No states left the United States during the Confederate insurrection against the United States nor did they require readmission when the insurrection was suppressed. Because the "Confederate government" of these states was unlawful in violation of the Constitution, and was comprised of traitors, martial law was imposed and a military governor was assigned to each during reconstruction except for Tennessee where the sitting legislature ratified the 14th Amendment granting citizenship to blacks and other born in the United States.

The Confederate States of America was never a nation. It was merely a proclamation by the Confederate traitors that were in armed occupation of territory that belonged to the United States under the Constitution. Neither the United States government nor did any foreign government ever recognized the existence of the Confederate States of America as a nation. It was rebel held territory and nothing more.

All of those that committed acts of treason and other offenses against the Constitutional government of the United States, that President Lincoln offered Presidential pardons and immunity from prosecution to, had to acknowledge their crimes and pledge loyalty to the United States. Anyone accepting a Presidential pardon must first accept responsibility (guilt) and renounce the crime(s) that they're being pardoned for. Lincoln's pardons were no different than other Presidential pardons issued in the history of the United States (with the possible exception of Trump's pardon of Joe Arpaio where he acknowledges he was guilty of racist racial profiling if he accepts the pardon but has not renounced the crimes he committed - yet).

The rise of the KKK and the White Supremacist movement in the United States was most evident during the early 1920's under Republican Presidents Harding (1921-1923) and Coolidge (1923-1929). It was during this time period that Republican Rep. Albert Johnson (a blatant WASP male racist and head of 'The Eugenics Research Association' who's racist views were later mirrored by Adolf Hitler) was responsible for the Emergency Quota Act (aka the Johnson Quota Act), signed into law by Harding, that restricted immigration of Catholics from southern Europe and Jews from Eastern Europe based upon the 1910 census. By 1924 Albert Johnson had created an even more racist immigration law as the Immigration Act of 1924 (aka the Johnson-Reed Immigration Act) that was openly debated in Congress as a law necessary to retain WASP Male Supremacy in the United States by restricting "non-WASP" immigration. It even changed the basis used in the 1921 Act that used the 1910 census to using the 1890 census that ensured more "racism" in the restriction of immigration to the United States. The 1924 Immigration Act, that was exclusively about ensuring White Supremacy in the United States, was signed into law by Republican President Calvin Coolidge.

If the KKK had political allies during their most influential period in American politics is was the Republicans during the 1920's when the most racist White Supremacy laws were created by Republicans and enacted under Republican administrations.

Ironically we're seeing that again today. As a Senator in 2015 Jeff Sessions cited the 1924 White Supremacy Immigration Law as setting precedent for what needed to be done on immigration today.

During an October 2015 radio interview with (Alt-Right Neo-Nazi White Supremacy supporting) Stephen Bannon of Breitbart, now a top adviser to the president-elect, Sessions praised the 1924 law saying that:
Quote:
"In seven years we'll have the highest percentage of Americans, non-native born, since the founding of the Republic. Some people think we've always had these numbers, and it's not so, it's very unusual, it's a radical change. When the numbers reached about this high in 1924, the president and congress changed the policy, and it slowed down immigration significantly."
Glowing praise for an immigration law created by a Republican, Rep Albert Johnson, that's been described as "an unusually energetic and vehement racist and nativist." A man that was the head of 'The Eugenics Research Association', a group which opposed interracial marriage and supported forced sterilization of the mentally disabled. And that in a 1919 proposal to suspend immigration he included this quote from a State Department Official referring to Jewish people as "filthy, un-American, and often dangerous in their habits."

Is it any wonder that the KKK formally endorsed Donald Trump considering the White Supremacy advocacy that existed in his campaign staff and that later assumed positions of power in his administration? Jeff Sessions has never been a member of the KKK but he certainly backs their Neo-Nazi White Supremacy ideology.
__________________
President Lincoln issued 64 pardons for war-related offences; 22 for conspiracy, 17 for treason, 12 for rebellion, 9 for holding an office under the Confederacy, and 4 for serving with the rebels.

The American Civil War was a White (WASP Male) Supremacist insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States. Every American that served the Confederate cause was a TRAITOR and every White Supremacist today is a Traitor and a Terrorist.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to ShivaTD For This Useful Post:
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2017, 01:18 PM
Gordon Shumway's Avatar
Scholar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,548
Thanks: 2,062
Thanked 3,114 Times in 1,860 Posts
Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
this is my favorite part of this whole thread.

someone who is emphatically opposed to everything trump uses a video of him suggesting the removal of the confederate flag.

so now the three of us have something we agree on.

no other flag but the American flag or the respective state flag should fly in an official capacity on government property.
absolutely no reason a confederate flag should ever fly at a state house, court house or any place not solely designated for historical significance.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
built, confederate, further, future, statues, supremacist, were, white

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0