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History, Geography, & Military Discuss Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future' at the Political Forums; I consider these statues as fine pieces of art, and destruction would be more than just a waste. If you ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2017, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

I consider these statues as fine pieces of art, and destruction would be more than just a waste. If you knew what was involved in making these pieces your perception might change, to come to see them as fine artwork..

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Old 08-24-2017, 06:59 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by WallyWager View Post
Oh absolutely, and I too don't believe statues should be illegally destroyed or defaced, not even the Confederate ones. Whatever any state or city does is their business; but personally I wouldn't want monuments to the Confederacy on public lands, propped up by tax dollars. I'd be fine if something such as a private museum dedicated to Civil War, or general American and/or Confederate history wanted to use them for exhibits.
Would not the "offended" charge against the Private exhibits. Vandals don't really care about ownership. We have hate groups burning churches and synagogues. What would be the difference?

These "confederate" statues are not private statements on federal properties. Many are owned by the Government, some are enshrined in the military. What about those statues that are federally managed and protected?

And why are they suddenly trigger points for racist self indulgent snowflakes. Where is the respect and reason?

The actions of the Antifa, BLM and the Neo Nazi are provocations to the orderly society. The purpose is not to remove them but to incite angry emotions. Hell even the ACLU is under fire.
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

I don't think we have many 'snowflakes' around here.

This statue was moved from the grounds of the public library to a special memorial park downtown.

It has never been vandalized or damaged and doubt it ever will be.

Veterans Monument



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Old 08-24-2017, 07:11 PM
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Post Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Would not the "offended" charge against the Private exhibits. Vandals don't really care about ownership. We have hate groups burning churches and synagogues. What would be the difference?
You're basically arguing a strawman assumption that others wouldn't see a difference between private and public property.

To answer your question more directly, can you show ANYBODY who is pitching a fit over confederate memorabilia in a museum?
If you actually can, is it with the same volume as the ones on public property?

Surely you can put the pieces together to see the obvious that there is a recognized difference.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
These "confederate" statues are not private statements on federal properties.
Except the originating article helped demonstrate that is exactly why many of them were put up.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Many are owned by the Government, some are enshrined in the military. What about those statues that are federally managed and protected?
Wasn't WW talking explicitly about that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
And why are they suddenly trigger points for racist self indulgent snowflakes. Where is the respect and reason?
Hate groups rise...
More people want to take away their public monuments...
See the connection?

Donald Trump’s Rise Has Coincided With an Explosion of Hate Groups


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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
The actions of the Antifa, BLM and the Neo Nazi are provocations to the orderly society. The purpose is not to remove them but to incite angry emotions. Hell even the ACLU is under fire.
You are trying to tell others what their motivation is, even as they explicitly tell you what it is.
That is called a strawman argument.
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'



Like a lot of Americans, I carry photos of white supremist slave holders in my wallet to remind me of the good times when the Great White Eyes were honored and respected.

Call me a racist but,,,;'I'm not tearing them up
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Old 08-25-2017, 12:01 PM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You're basically arguing a strawman assumption that others wouldn't see a difference between private and public property.

To answer your question more directly, can you show ANYBODY who is pitching a fit over confederate memorabilia in a museum?
If you actually can, is it with the same volume as the ones on public property?

Surely you can put the pieces together to see the obvious that there is a recognized difference.



Except the originating article helped demonstrate that is exactly why many of them were put up.




Wasn't WW talking explicitly about that?



Hate groups rise...
More people want to take away their public monuments...
See the connection?

Donald Trump’s Rise Has Coincided With an Explosion of Hate Groups



You are trying to tell others what their motivation is, even as they explicitly tell you what it is.
That is called a strawman argument.
A perfect example of what you accuse is projecting onto someone what their message was 100 years ago when they erected a statue. Jus' say'in

A straw man argument is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.

Since you apply that word and so inappropriately, and so often, I thought you might want to be better educated as to it's application. You slice and dice excerpts, out of context, to which a one line response is easy but often misleading and often WRONG. You continually insult our intelligences by the application of what is our motive to deflect from what was said. All to often using the "straw-man argument moniker' to somehow sound wise.

All of which suggests you are either too lazy or have do not possess the intelligence to rub two ideas together and present a logically composed post. I seldom respond to them because the are so fragmented it is virtually impossible. A clever technique but seldom helpful in verbal intercourse.

However, in this case I thought it might be helpful to you, to define your favorite ploy.

A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.
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Last edited by FrancSevin; 08-25-2017 at 12:11 PM..
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-28-2017, 10:58 AM
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Post Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
A perfect example of what you accuse is projecting onto someone what their message was 100 years ago when they erected a statue. Jus' say'in
A straw man argument is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent.
Since you apply that word and so inappropriately, and so often, I thought you might want to be better educated as to it's application.
Can you point out where I said you committed a strawman argument but I was misusing the definition?
No. Of course you can't. Because the point of your comment was a pretense to actually having a valid point.

Let me enlighten you: FrancSevin: Would not the "offended" charge against the Private exhibits. Vandals don't really care about ownership. We have hate groups burning churches and synagogues. What would be the difference?
You created a strawman for their opinion on the matter and where they supposedly draw the lines.
What's even more boring, you skipped the question that you should have answered to recognize the flaw in your argument.
To answer your question more directly, can you show ANYBODY who is pitching a fit over confederate memorabilia in a museum?


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
You slice and dice excerpts, out of context, to which a one line response is easy but often misleading and often WRONG.
I welcome you to point out exactly where that occurred.
Your complaint is an easy one to throw out there but (yet again) it's a pretense to an argument which lacks substance.

Arguments often have structures.
Thus, I often point out how the foundation of the argument is flawed. People can have multiple reasons for reaching their conclusion, thus I point out why the multiple reasons (individually) are flawed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
You continually insult our intelligences by the application of what is our motive to deflect from what was said. All to often using the "straw-man argument moniker' to somehow sound wise.
It's a word with meaning. If you have a dumbed down version of the term which wouldn't make you feel inadequate, then let me know and I'll consider using that.
It's not my intent to "insult your intelligences"
If you feel insulted over me pointing a "strawman", that's on you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
All of which suggests you are either too lazy or have do not possess the intelligence to rub two ideas together and present a logically composed post. I seldom respond to them because the are so fragmented it is virtually impossible. A clever technique but seldom helpful in verbal intercourse.
ROFLMAO!
So you lay out a false claim of me insulting you (which never happened) so that you could instead respond with insults.

Your whole reply is devoid of any substance, but it's rather obvious what your intent is.
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You're basically arguing a strawman assumption that others wouldn't see a difference between private and public property.

To answer your question more directly, can you show ANYBODY who is pitching a fit over confederate memorabilia in a museum?
If you actually can, is it with the same volume as the ones on public property?

Surely you can put the pieces together to see the obvious that there is a recognized difference.



Except the originating article helped demonstrate that is exactly why many of them were put up.




Wasn't WW talking explicitly about that?



Hate groups rise...
More people want to take away their public monuments...
See the connection?

Donald Trump’s Rise Has Coincided With an Explosion of Hate Groups



You are trying to tell others what their motivation is, even as they explicitly tell you what it is.
That is called a strawman argument.
There are several groups pitching a fit over exhibits in museums. One concerning Cantrell's pistol in Pennsylvania, and another in NY. I don't remember the details. There are others.

The goal of the anti statueists, like the anti flagists is not the relocation, it's the elimination. The flags have been eliminated in the civil war battlefields. The museums of the civil war.
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:21 AM
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Post Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

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Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
There are several groups pitching a fit over exhibits in museums. One concerning Cantrell's pistol in Pennsylvania, and another in NY. I don't remember the details. There are others.
The point is that it's much less. You hear complaints regarding the public statues on government property. I've never heard a complaint regarding civil war memorabilia in museums.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
The goal of the anti statueists, like the anti flagists is not the relocation, it's the elimination. The flags have been eliminated in the civil war battlefields. The museums of the civil war.
First, how many nazi flags do you see kept up around the battle fields of Europe for WW II?
The losing flag is typically not kept on the battle field centuries after the war.

Second, (and Franc I'm giving you an example), proclaiming their motivation like that is a strawman argument.
While I acknowledge some may want elimination, but most simply want it off the government property. And recognizing the shortest distance between present position and desired goal yields "destruction" as the most efficient method.

LOOK at the timeline in the first post.
MOST of these were put up HALF A CENTURY AFTER the Civil War ended. While many on the right refuse to recognize the real meaning of this, they fail to present an alternative justification for this...
WHY WERE SO MANY "monuments" put up half a century and later on government property?
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Old 08-28-2017, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: Confederate Statues Were Built To Further A 'White Supremacist Future'

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The point is that it's much less. You hear complaints regarding the public statues on government property. I've never heard a complaint regarding civil war memorabilia in museums.



First, how many nazi flags do you see kept up around the battle fields of Europe for WW II?
The losing flag is typically not kept on the battle field centuries after the war.

Second, (and Franc I'm giving you an example), proclaiming their motivation like that is a strawman argument.
While I acknowledge some may want elimination, but most simply want it off the government property. And recognizing the shortest distance between present position and desired goal yields "destruction" as the most efficient method.

LOOK at the timeline in the first post.
MOST of these were put up HALF A CENTURY AFTER the Civil War ended. While many on the right refuse to recognize the real meaning of this, they fail to present an alternative justification for this...
WHY WERE SO MANY "monuments" put up half a century and later on government property?
I had never thoughtor cared much about statutes before this, but, with no explanation to the contrary from the right, the only explanation for having statues of the losers and enemies all over the country constructed during Klan high times must be their racist significance.
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