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History, Geography, & Military Discuss The Bending of History at the Political Forums; My title, since this not related to a news story, but something I want to discuss. A member here has ...

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Old 08-24-2017, 09:38 AM
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Default The Bending of History

My title, since this not related to a news story, but something I want to discuss.

A member here has the following signature, which has sent me researching certain historical facts. Please note, this is not an attack on a member, it is a discussion about history.

Quote:
President Lincoln issued 64 pardons for war-related offences; 22 for conspiracy, 17 for treason, 12 for rebellion, 9 for holding an office under the Confederacy, and 4 for serving with the rebels.

The American Civil War was a White (WASP Male) Supremacist insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States. Every American that served the Confederate cause was a TRAITOR and every White Supremacist today is a Traitor and a Terrorist.
If one were to accept (albeit temporarily) that the sole cause of the Civil War were as this quote states, considering the standards of the time, why is it considered that current day Americans to carry a burden of guilt for what occurred 150 years ago? The majority of Americans do not believe in the supremacist claptrap, but yet we are being held accountable for previous generations actions.

If one were to follow this logic, then anything to do with the European military should be considered a horror, after the impressment of men into the army and navy, and slavery and slave trading that was the norm of that time.

In addition, the Revolution could also be considered treason by these standards, but I've seen dodge and deflection in regards to acknowledging that fact. Shall that too be treated with disdain, and washed from our history books?
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
My title, since this not related to a news story, but something I want to discuss.

A member here has the following signature, which has sent me researching certain historical facts. Please note, this is not an attack on a member, it is a discussion about history.



If one were to accept (albeit temporarily) that the sole cause of the Civil War were as this quote states, considering the standards of the time, why is it considered that current day Americans to carry a burden of guilt for what occurred 150 years ago? The majority of Americans do not believe in the supremacist claptrap, but yet we are being held accountable for previous generations actions.

If one were to follow this logic, then anything to do with the European military suhould be considered a horror, after the impressment of men into the army and navy, and slavery and slave trading that was the norm of that time.

In addition, the Revolution could also be considered treason by these standards, but I've seen dodge and deflection in regards to acknowledging that fact. Shall that too be treated with disdain, and washed from our history books?
The US patriots were traitors to Britain. That is fact. I bet to this day there are no statutes of American rebel leaders in London.
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Geez surly, are you that blind or just that dumb.
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:49 AM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

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Originally Posted by Surly View Post
The US patriots were traitors to Britain. That is fact. I bet to this day there are no statutes of American rebel leaders in London.
George Washington stands in Trafalgar Square.



https://www.guidelondon.org.uk/blog/...idents-london/
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Old 08-24-2017, 10:50 AM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

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Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
George Washington stands in Trafalgar Square.



https://www.guidelondon.org.uk/blog/...idents-london/
Cool. I didn't know that.
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Geez surly, are you that blind or just that dumb.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:18 AM
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Cool. I didn't know that.
Laugh... lost that bet didn't you.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Zenock View Post
Laugh... lost that bet didn't you.
First time I have ever been wrong.
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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
Geez surly, are you that blind or just that dumb.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

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Originally Posted by Surly View Post
The US patriots were traitors to Britain. That is fact. I bet to this day there are no statutes of American rebel leaders in London.
There are statues of Napolean in many places in the UK.
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Old 08-24-2017, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

The OP is about this lie;
The American Civil War was a White (WASP Male) Supremacist insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States. Every American that served the Confederate cause was a TRAITOR and every White Supremacist today is a Traitor and a Terrorist.

The question of slavery was not the cause of the civil war. Nor was it an insurrection against the Constitutional government of the USA. It was a purposeful separation as allowed by the original founding of the 13 confederating nation states.

The Union was Constitutionally wrong.
The Republican party was also wrong, Constitutionally.

But not morally. Being founded on the abolitionists creed, it was driven to use political pressure to eliminate slavery in the UNION. The war of succession made it convenient without the use of the Congress.

Each state had the right to chose to allow slavery or not. Most northern states respected the southern slave states and returned escaped slaves. Many, like we now do with illegal immigrants, looked the other way.

But, it was not the cause of the war. I repeat, no son of the south went to war to protect the rich landowner's money or his estate. Most went to defend their nation state from the "oppression" of the industrial northern states, who had more control over the Federal government and the Congress. And were using it to subjugate the Agrarian South.

At the end of the war, Lincoln freed the slaves "in the states of succession" but not the states still within the Union. If the issue of conflict was slavery, why the omission.

The 14thamendment came later and even it did not grant full citizenship to freed slaves. The GOP, not the Democrats (can you say KKK) fought for equal rights for over a century cumulating in the civil rights movement of the 50's. A movement that was co-opted by the Democratic party in the late 60's.

For those of us old enough to remember those times, the new versions of history would be amusing if they weren't such malicious lies.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
My title, since this not related to a news story, but something I want to discuss.

A member here has the following signature, which has sent me researching certain historical facts. Please note, this is not an attack on a member, it is a discussion about history.



If one were to accept (albeit temporarily) that the sole cause of the Civil War were as this quote states, considering the standards of the time, why is it considered that current day Americans to carry a burden of guilt for what occurred 150 years ago? The majority of Americans do not believe in the supremacist claptrap, but yet we are being held accountable for previous generations actions.

If one were to follow this logic, then anything to do with the European military should be considered a horror, after the impressment of men into the army and navy, and slavery and slave trading that was the norm of that time.

In addition, the Revolution could also be considered treason by these standards, but I've seen dodge and deflection in regards to acknowledging that fact. Shall that too be treated with disdain, and washed from our history books?
Europeans don't erect statues to the defeated enemies of that war but to the victors.(I'm assuming you mean WWII)
yes the revolution had we lost would be viewed differently.
I agree this many years later we shouldn't be this concerned about it or even have commemorative statues to people we are unconnected to in the modern age.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Europeans don't erect statues to the defeated enemies of that war but to the victors.
yes the revolution had we lost would be viewed differently.
I agree this many years later we shouldn't be this concerned about it or even have commemorative statues to people we are unconnected to in the modern age.
Mmmm, forgetting about Napolean and Waterloo?

Unconnected to - so in your learned opinion, the statue of David should come down also?

Your own words say you believe we should erase history. How very sad.
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