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History, Geography, & Military Discuss The Bending of History at the Political Forums; Most of us consider W. Churchill as a hero of WWII. But President Obama thought of him and a colonial ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-24-2017, 01:40 PM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

Most of us consider W. Churchill as a hero of WWII. But President Obama thought of him and a colonial oppressor. So he removed the bust from the Oval office.

Respect of the man, and most Americans be dammed, He had his reasons.

As President, he had the power to make that choice. Didn't change a thing except our relationship with England.

Wrong or right, was it right? After all, Britain was the first nation to outlaw the buying and selling of slaves.

So, did Obama's choice relate to slavery or racism?
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:20 PM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Mmmm, forgetting about Napolean and Waterloo?

Unconnected to - so in your learned opinion, the statue of David should come down also?

Your own words say you believe we should erase history. How very sad.
Quote:
Europeans don't erect statues to the defeated enemies of that war but to the victors.(I'm assuming you mean WWII)
yes the revolution had we lost would be viewed differently.
I agree this many years later we shouldn't be this concerned about it or even have commemorative statues to people we are unconnected to in the modern age.
Guess I got my edit in after you replied.

how very sad you don't see the difference between a world changing revolution, a great work of art, and a memorial to the losing side in the bloodiest war in one country's history.
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Old 08-24-2017, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Guess I got my edit in after you replied.

how very sad you don't see the difference between a world changing revolution, a great work of art, and a memorial to the losing side in the bloodiest war in one country's history.
You are the one who said things we aren't 'connected' to in the modern world should be removed.

The 'memorial' is also for remembrance of AMERICAN lives lost...

I happen to be a frequent visitor to the MMOMA, MoNH and many others. I have a great appreciation for the arts, and history, and the combination of the two. The statues that have been torn down, removed or covered are a sin to both art and history.

Unfortunately, there are those who find offense in reminders of where we were and how far we've come as a nation.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:04 PM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
You are the one who said things we aren't 'connected' to in the modern world should be removed.

Quote:
The 'memorial' is also for remembrance of AMERICAN lives lost...
I was -or thought I was mirroring your own comments
I happen to be a frequent visitor to the MMOMA, MoNH and many others. I have a great appreciation for the arts, and history, and the combination of the two. The statues that have been torn down, removed or covered are a sin to both art and history.

Unfortunately, there are those who find offense in reminders of where we were and how far we've come as a nation.
I don't care one way or the other personally. but if it 1)offends a third or better of the nation and
2) becomes a rallying point for nazis and kkk
then tear em all down

One thing I noticed while traveling...
we were in a middle scale restaurant in the deep south.
you know how there are themes? like where I'm from they have ponce de leon and paintings of the era all over or beach scenes right?
well in this particular one I'm talking about there was a lot of civil war memorabilia. guns and stuff. Then a gigantic framed picture of Lee.
I searched surrounding walls-no Grant!
I found that disturbing. Like they were sending a message they still felt fealty to "the cause"
that was a private but their court house had only statues of the rebel side too.
So if we're gonna have statues to remember that war let's at least tell both sides of the story.
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

Oh brother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
The OP is about this lie;
The American Civil War was a White (WASP Male) Supremacist insurrection against the Constitutional government of the United States. Every American that served the Confederate cause was a TRAITOR and every White Supremacist today is a Traitor and a Terrorist.

The question of slavery was not the cause of the civil war. Nor was it an insurrection against the Constitutional government of the USA. It was a purposeful separation as allowed by the original founding of the 13 confederating nation states.

The Union was Constitutionally wrong.
The Republican party was also wrong, Constitutionally.

But not morally. Being founded on the abolitionists creed, it was driven to use political pressure to eliminate slavery in the UNION. The war of succession made it convenient without the use of the Congress.

Each state had the right to chose to allow slavery or not. Most northern states respected the southern slave states and returned escaped slaves. Many, like we now do with illegal immigrants, looked the other way.

But, it was not the cause of the war. I repeat, no son of the south went to war to protect the rich landowner's money or his estate. Most went to defend their nation state from the "oppression" of the industrial northern states, who had more control over the Federal government and the Congress. And were using it to subjugate the Agrarian South.

At the end of the war, Lincoln freed the slaves "in the states of succession" but not the states still within the Union. If the issue of conflict was slavery, why the omission.

The 14thamendment came later and even it did not grant full citizenship to freed slaves. The GOP, not the Democrats (can you say KKK) fought for equal rights for over a century cumulating in the civil rights movement of the 50's. A movement that was co-opted by the Democratic party in the late 60's.

For those of us old enough to remember those times, the new versions of history would be amusing if they weren't such malicious lies.
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
So, did Obama's choice relate to slavery or racism?
It related to whatever the monkey handlers told him.
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:36 AM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

Quote:
Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
I don't care one way or the other personally. but if it 1)offends a third or better of the nation and
2) becomes a rallying point for nazis and kkk
then tear em all down

One thing I noticed while traveling...
we were in a middle scale restaurant in the deep south.
you know how there are themes? like where I'm from they have ponce de leon and paintings of the era all over or beach scenes right?
well in this particular one I'm talking about there was a lot of civil war memorabilia. guns and stuff. Then a gigantic framed picture of Lee.
I searched surrounding walls-no Grant!
I found that disturbing. Like they were sending a message they still felt fealty to "the cause"
that was a private but their court house had only statues of the rebel side too.
So if we're gonna have statues to remember that war let's at least tell both sides of the story.
If you are private, you can put up a statue of whatever trips your trigger, theme or not.
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Old 08-25-2017, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

Here's how you bend history. Have Snopes review it.
Were the Irish Slaves in America, Too?

Here's the history we don't teach our children because white slavery is too close to the heart to be true.
http://www.snopes.com/irish-slaves-early-america/


So Snopes debunks the myth of white slavery. No Surprise there they don't deny the event, just modify the meaning of the words a bit. That's called "Bending history."


Here's a link that exhibits views from both sides.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=WIrish...F1A9F56C39B127

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat.


The Irish Slave Trade – The Forgotten “White” Slaves ...

No denials of the events. But,,,,,; Apparently indentured servitude is no longer considered "slavery."
Want to change history????
Want to turn a reality into a disposable myth????

Just change the meaning of one word and make it so!
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

Quote:
Originally Posted by [QUOTE
FrancSevin;904437]Most of us consider W. Churchill as a hero of WWII. But President Obama thought of him and a colonial oppressor. So he removed the bust from the Oval office.
I doubt all of this made up BS.
Quote:
Respect of the man, and most Americans be dammed, He had his reasons.

As President, he had the power to make that choice. Didn't change a thing except our relationship with England.
Obama had good relations. Better than Trump who faces petitions to keep his orange ass out of England.
Quote:
Wrong or right, was it right? After all, Britain was the first nation to outlaw the buying and selling of slaves.
Wqas your BS right or wrong? I'm going with wrong. Obama still gets high ratings in England

Quote:
So, did Obama's choice relate to slavery or racism?
Don't know where you got your misinformation.
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: The Bending of History

[quote=Mikeyy;904621][quote=I doubt all of this made up BS.
Obama had good relations. Better than Trump who faces petitions to keep his orange ass out of England.
Wqas your BS right or wrong? I'm going with wrong. Obama still gets high ratings in England

Don't know where you got your misinformation.[/quote]

Once again, you got nuthin but opinions and an unsupervised keyboard.
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