To any veterans on this forum

[Awahso]

What is your take on military desertion, or those who desert?

[Oftencold]

Originally Posted by Awahso

What is your take on military desertion, or those who desert?

In war or peace?


Voluntary service or draftee?


Rope or firing squad?

[saltwn]

Originally Posted by Awahso

What is your take on military desertion, or those who desert?

In service where you are not in a war zone, I view it as an obligation, legal and contractual. Like running away from a traffic fine, you're going to have to face the fiddler and take the medicine (to mix metaphors completely ) eventually and the sooner the better to live your life moving forward.

In a battle zone, I have a very philosophical view. One has to save their own psyche. Going against their own psyche for the sake of orders, which many do, causes chaos in the mind. However in our society desertion also causes stress.
First the mere existence of violence usually makes us want to flee the situation.
One does not know until the time comes whether one has the focus and determination to carry through with assigned orders in a battle zone.
While I respect and admire all those who served the tour and have many family members among them, I believe it is a personal decision at the time. That decision may be based on cheap hypocritical cowardice, or it may be a moral or a reflex decision. I respect it also.

[Awahso]

The reason I bring this up ( I should have posted this in the original post; I don't know why I didn't) was this news piece.

Army Deserter Arrested at Border; Opposed Iraq War - ABC News

A female U.S. Army deserter who in 2007 moved to Canada to avoid being sent back to Iraq was arrested Thursday. Authorities took her into custody at a border crossing in New York after the Canadian government ordered her deported.

Thirty-year-old Kimberly Rivera, an Army private and mother of four, had fled to Canada to escape returning to Iraq, where she had already served three months. She traveled to Canada during a home leave, citing her opposition to the war in Iraq.

Chief Tom Russert, Public Affairs Liaison for Customs and Border Protection field operations, confirmed Rivera’s arrest Thursday morning at the Alexandria Bay Border Crossing.
“She was wanted for being a military deserter, there was a warrant for her arrest,” said Russert. He said Rivera was arrested by U.S. Customs and Border Protection personnel and turned over to Fort Drum, an Army base 30 miles away from the border crossing where she was arrested.

Lt. Col. David Konop, a spokesman at Fort Drum, New York confirmed to ABC News that Rivera is at the base. He said “her case is being examined while her needs are being addressed.” He said she was at Fort Drum only because of its proximity to the border crossing where she was detained. He said it was unclear what her future movements might be.

Rivera applied for refugee status in Canada in 2007, but her application was denied. Her legal fight to remain in Canada culminated in a deportation order last month. In a statement, the War Resisters Support Campaign, a Canadian group advocating for Rivera , said she had “voluntarily presented herself at the U.S. border this morning.”

The group said, ” Kimberly now awaits punishment for refusing to return to Iraq, a conflict which Kimberly and Canada determined was wrong.”
The U.S. Army classifies deserters as those soldiers who have not reported for duty for more than 30 days. The Army could choose to prosecute her and potentially seek a court martial or choose the more common practice of an administrative separation.

It appears that she did not try to pose her self a conscientious objector, but rather left as soon as she got home. I have been told (may need to be clarified), that in the US military there are ways to pose yourself as a conscientious objector and avoid going to war. I saw many people getting angry at Canada for deporting her, people grinding into her, and others saying she has every right to leave.

My true issue is her abandonment of her comrades in arms and her abandonment of voluntary duty. If she had been drafted this would be an entirely different situation. She enlisted in the Army in a time of war with two countries. She should have known that going to war was a realistic possibility. I do not think that any of us know if we could handle war or not unless we have been there. On that note, she knew it was a possibility and to some degree felt she could take the task. However, I would love to get a veteran's perspective.

[1069]

I'm not a veteran, but one of my sons was in the army for awhile.
I think deserters should be forced to pay back everything the military has put into them- enlistment bonuses, etc. I don't really think they should be imprisoned, and certainly not executed.
We have a volunteer army, and forcing people who want out to stay in at gunpoint is not good for morale.
Besides, there are so many ways to get an administrative discharge if you really want out: getting pregnant is the way that many deployed female soldiers get an automatic ticket home. Or, like my son, you can refuse to quit smoking pot despite failing repeated random drug tests, and they'll eventually cut you loose.
Some people simply aren't cut out for military service, and it would be a shame to discourage young people from giving it a try because they're afraid they'll be imprisoned or executed if it turns out they can't hack it and are unsuited.
Anyway, the "unsuited" ones are a minority; maybe 5% of those who actually join, in an all-volunteer army (that statistic would be significantly higher during a draft, one would imagine).
I say just let them go, for the good of the entire army. No point punishing them for being unfit for combat- emotionally, psychologically, or otherwise.
Maybe work on better screening techniques, to keep unsuited volunteers out and avoid wasting resources on them.

[saltwn]

Sorry I notice now you want response from veterans. Since I am not one please excuse the error.

[Awahso]

Originally Posted by saltwn

Sorry I notice now you want response from veterans. Since I am not one please excuse the error.

No problem at all. Anyone can join in. I just love all the people who sit there and write "I was a Marine, and if any of boys thought of fleeing I would shoot him in the back myself!" (I seriously hope that is not a real Marine but regardless).

[Manitou]

I'm retired Navy. A member who deserts because he's trying to save his butt is just a coward, and the unit can do well without him or his interference. Every person who joins the Armed Forces is told that his first duty is to fight.

[Pretty Flamingo]

During a time when our industrial north of England was closing the coal mines, steel plants, engineering industries etc., and work was scarce, the answer was for young men to enlist into our military and it was seen as a way out of living off handouts in the years to come. That was in the 70s and 80s, and it seemed more common for certain parts of the UK where there was a lack of work for young men to enlist. Not so much here in the south of England where we were and are more fortunate with job availability. Of course they knew war was an option but nevertheless enlisting would have given them a far better lifestyle than they could have sitting on the chair watching television for the years to come and living off the government.

Now it is different and there is a shortage of people enlisting. I have heard that our men/women are paid less than yours, and there have been stories of them even having to buy their own boots and some other equipment (I think) due to cutbacks in the budget.

Anyone joining up in the last 20 years or so would have known the state of the world, that the army would not be a bed of roses and there would be a good chance of being put into dangerous situations even with training and back-up.

Who am I to judge what should be done to a deserter? I have every admiration for our and your military. War is scary and death is a real possibility. It must be hard in a situation when you realise what the reality of war is and know there is no way out. It is a terrible dilemma.

[MrLiberty]

She had free choice to join the military so I would say that in lieu of whatever her hitch would be she should serve that time in the brig, plus the four years she was in hiding. A dishonorable when she is released.