Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > Political Forums > History, Geography, & Military
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

History, Geography, & Military Discuss Jimmy Carter Quote at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by Mikeyy Which Palestinian leaders would you acknowledge? Carter is doing more than acknowleging Hamas -- he is ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 08:40 AM
lackluster's Avatar
stating the obvious
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: pnw
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,317
Thanks: 318
Thanked 904 Times in 528 Posts
Default Re: Jimmy Carter Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Which Palestinian leaders would you acknowledge?


Carter is doing more than acknowleging Hamas -- he is legitimizing and appeasing them. Heck, he has even praised them in the past, so his role is clear.

Why does he think he needs to talk to them at all, though? What can be gained by talking to those whose beliefs are predicated upon genocidal racism, the desire to subjugate women, and the desire to spread their viscious, totalitarian ideology world wide? Has he learned nothing from history?

As far as what I would do, were I in the position of Carter, I would certainly not be saying supportive things about them, nor justifying their terrorism (which he did in his book). I wouldn't meet with any of them until such a time as a leader emerged truly commited to peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
And how did Carter Demonize Israel
Read the book.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 08:49 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,513
Thanks: 22,404
Thanked 18,921 Times in 13,936 Posts
Default Re: Jimmy Carter Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by lackluster View Post
Carter is doing more than acknowleging Hamas -- he is legitimizing and appeasing them. Heck, he has even praised them in the past, so his role is clear.

Why does he think he needs to talk to them at all, though? What can be gained by talking to those whose beliefs are predicated upon genocidal racism, the desire to subjugate women, and the desire to spread their viscious, totalitarian ideology world wide? Has he learned nothing from history?

As far as what I would do, were I in the position of Carter, I would certainly not be saying supportive things about them, nor justifying their terrorism (which he did in his book). I wouldn't meet with any of them until such a time as a leader emerged truly commited to peace.



Read the book.
Just as I assumed. You have no answer.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 09:01 AM
lackluster's Avatar
stating the obvious
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: pnw
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,317
Thanks: 318
Thanked 904 Times in 528 Posts
Default Re: Jimmy Carter Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Just as I assumed. You have no answer.
If somebody had the "answer", I'm sure it would have come forth by now.
I don't claim to have the "answer".

What I DO have is a quite thorough knowlege of the conflict based upon my 35 years of interest in the subject as well as a mind fair enough to separate fact from propaganda. Needless to say, just repeating the platitudinous talking points and manipulitive framing devices one finds at anti-Israel web sited does not cut it with me.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 09:42 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,513
Thanks: 22,404
Thanked 18,921 Times in 13,936 Posts
Default Re: Jimmy Carter Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by lackluster View Post
If somebody had the "answer", I'm sure it would have come forth by now.
I don't claim to have the "answer".

What I DO have is a quite thorough knowlege of the conflict based upon my 35 years of interest in the subject as well as a mind fair enough to separate fact from propaganda. Needless to say, just repeating the platitudinous talking points and manipulitive framing devices one finds at anti-Israel web sited does not cut it with me.
Don't know about that I have never seen an anti Israeli web site. I am not mad at Jews. I am not even religious so I don't have a dog in that fight. But I do notice hypocrisy when I see it.

After all of this time no Israeli or U.S. leader will acknowledge the facts surrounding the creation of the new state of Israel. Nobody wants to admit to stealing the land from those who lived there to create the new country. I am not afraid to admit that we took this country The U.S. from the native people. I am not proud about how it was done. But at least I can face the truth. We stole it. Now Religious folks say god gave the land to Israel. Well, I could say an alien gave it to me. How does that settle the case. Do the Israelis have a deed from God. No. So other then old religious stories there is no evidence of the land belonging to anyone but those who lived there.
Under the theory of the state of Israel. If applied here in the states would mean that if the native americans told me that I had to leave because the great spirit says so I guess I would have to leave and just keep my mouth shut about it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Mikeyy For This Useful Post:
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 01:06 PM
cnredd's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Gender: Male
Posts: 55,374
Thanks: 2,260
Thanked 35,762 Times in 20,457 Posts
Default Re: Jimmy Carter Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Ever since Carter used the term aparthied he has been attacked. All he did was point out the facts and folks freaked because they don't want to face the facts. Tell me the last politician to critic Israels policies.
Apparently you missed this...

14 people from CARTER'S OWN COUNCIL resigned duw to Carter's attacks of Israel...

His own friggin' council!!!!!...

Mass Resignations from Carter Center

Quote:
Fourteen members of the Carter Center advisory board have resigned after concluding that the Centerís founder, former president Jimmy Carter, has turned to "malicious advocacy" for the Palestinians and against Israel.

William B. Schwartz Jr., who served as the United States Ambassador to The Bahamas during the Carter administration, is among the group.

The mass resignations come after Professor Kenneth Stein resigned his position as Middle East Fellow of the Carter Center and after Professor Melvin Konner declined a position advising Carter.

Two letters sent by the resigning members follow:

Quote:
Dear fellow member of the Carter Center Board of Councilors,

This has been a difficult time for us. As members of the Board of Councilors of the Carter Center we have endeavored to promote the efforts of the Carter Center in our community. However, the recent book authored by President Carter "Palestine; Peace not Apartheid" and his comments in the press made while promoting the book have given us pause in our efforts. We are deeply troubled by the President's comments and writings and are submitting the following letter of resignation to the Carter Center. We wanted to inform you, our fellow Board members, of our actions and encourage you to contact us if you have any questions regarding our resignation.

Dear President Carter,

As members of the Board of Councilors each one of us has been proud to be associated with the Carter Center in its noble struggle to repair the world. However, in light of the publication of your latest book Palestine; Peace Not Apartheid and your subsequent comments made in promoting the book, we can no longer in good conscience continue to serve the Center as members of the Board of Councilors.

In its work in conflict resolution the Carter Center has always played the useful and constructive role of honest broker and mediator between warring parties. In your book, which portrays the conflict between Israel and her neighbors as a purely one-sided affair with Israel holding all of the responsibility for resolving the conflict, you have clearly abandoned your historic role of broker in favor of becoming an advocate for one side.

The facts in dealing with the conflict are these: There are two national narratives contesting one piece of land. The Israelis, through deed and public comment, have consistently spoken of a desire to live in peace and make territorial compromise to achieve this status. The Palestinian side has consistently resorted to acts of terror as a national expression and elected parties endorsing the use of terror, the rejection of territorial compromise and of Israel's right to exist. Palestinian leaders have had chances since 1947 to have their own state, including during your own presidency when they snubbed your efforts.

Your book has confused opinion with fact, subjectivity with objectivity and force for change with partisan advocacy. Furthermore the comments you have made the past few weeks insinuating that there is a monolith of Jewish power in America are most disturbing and must be addressed by us. In our great country where freedom of expression is basic bedrock you have suddenly proclaimed that Americans cannot express their opinion on matters in the Middle East for fear of retribution from the "Jewish Lobby" In condemning the Jews of America you also condemn Christians and others for their support of Israel. Is any interest group to be penalized for participating in the free and open political process that is America? Your book and recent comments suggest you seem to think so.

In the past you would inject yourself into this world to moderate between the two sides in the pursuit of peace and as a result you earned our admiration and support. Now you repeatedly make false claims. You wrote that UN Security Council Resolution 242 says that "Israel must withdraw from territories" (p. 38), but you know the word "must" in fact is not in the resolution. You said that since Mahmoud Abbas has been in office there have been no peace discussions. That is wrong. You wrote that Yassir Arafat told you in 1990 that, "The PLO has never advocated the annihilation of Israel" (p. 62). Given that their Charter, which explicitly calls for Israel's destruction, was not revised until the late 1990s, how could you even write such a claim as if it were credible?

You denied on Denver radio on December 12 that Palestinian Prime Minister Haniyah said he would never accept or negotiate with Israel. However the BBC monitoring service reported just the opposite. In fact Haniyah said: "We will never recognize the usurper Zionist government and will continue our jihadist movement until Bayt al-Maqdis (Jerusalem) and the Al-Aqsa Mosque are liberated. When presented with this fact you said, "No he didn't say that, no he did not do that, I did not hear that." These are not points of opinion, these are points of fact.

And finally, it is a disturbing statement to write: "that it is imperative, that the general Arab community and all significant Palestinian groups make it clear that they will end the suicide bombings and other acts of terrorism when international laws and the ultimate goals of the Roadmap for Peace are accepted by Israel." In this sentence you clearly suggest that you are condoning violence against Israelis until they do certain things (p.213). Your use of the word "Apartheid," regardless of your disclaimers, has already energized white supremacist groups who thrive on asserting Jewish control of government and foreign policy, an insinuation you made in your OPED to the LA Times on December 8, 2006: "For the last 30 years, I have witnessed and experienced the severe restraints on any free and balanced discussion of the facts." According to Web site monitoring by the Anti-Defamation League, U.S. white supremacists have enthusiastically embraced your suggestion that the Israel lobby stifles debate in this country, saying it confirms Jewish control of government and foreign policy as well as and the inherently "evil" nature of Jews. If you doubt the support you are giving and receiving, please refer to: [http://www.adl.org]

From there you can get to the postings of four different White Supremacist organizations that both support and make use of the contents of your book and what you have said in public.

As a result it seems that you have turned to a world of advocacy, including even malicious advocacy. We can no longer endorse your strident and uncompromising position. This is not the Carter Center or the Jimmy Carter we came to respect and support. Therefore it is with sadness and regret that we hereby tender our resignation from the Board of Councilors of the Carter Center effective immediately.
__________________
"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 02:19 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,513
Thanks: 22,404
Thanked 18,921 Times in 13,936 Posts
Default Re: Jimmy Carter Quote

Redd do you realize that none of those people read what he wrote. They were all Jewish. And they all left in mass after agreement by phone with each other. I watched as they were asked if they had read it. They said no. So the reason they left was to make the political point I just made. You are not to critic Israel if you are an American politician. They did not know what he had written. They didn't even give him the opportunity to talk to them about what he was going to say. This was all political gamesmanship.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 02:25 PM
cnredd's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Gender: Male
Posts: 55,374
Thanks: 2,260
Thanked 35,762 Times in 20,457 Posts
Default Re: Jimmy Carter Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Redd do you realize that none of those people read what he wrote. They were all Jewish. And they all left in mass after agreement by phone with each other. I watched as they were asked if they had read it. They said no. So the reason they left was to make the political point I just made. You are not to critic Israel if you are an American politician. They did not know what he had written. They didn't even give him the opportunity to talk to them about what he was going to say. This was all political gamesmanship.
I love the fact that you believe their Jewishness is the reason for the resignations and not the fact the one they council advocates and legitimizes their destruction...

I can imagine if Carter believed Great Britain should wipe Ireland off of the map and the Irish people in Carter's council quit your defense would equally be "That's OK...They're Irish so they don't count."...
__________________
"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 02:48 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,513
Thanks: 22,404
Thanked 18,921 Times in 13,936 Posts
Default Re: Jimmy Carter Quote

Check it out redd. I watched these guys on Cspan talking about this. He admitted to calling other Jewish members. If they respected Carter so much why didn't they even attempt to contact him about their concerns. I'll tell you why. Because the way they did this it made a bigger impact. And made the point very clear to others who feel that there should be an open discussion. Their saying we don't even want to discuss it.

And BTW why isn't what is going on in this area a little like aparthied. South Africa was basically a middle class white population surrounded by refugee camps of poor blacks. The whites had all the power and militia and international support. While the folks in the camps were maligned and powerless. I can see plenty of parallels.

And the idea that all Palestinians want is dead Israelis is a diversion and an attempt to dehumanize the PEOPLE living in these camps. Its easier to kill them if you just keep repeating the dumb **** Hamas says. People in this country are being convinced that these Palestinians are just a race of terrorists and murderers. Otherwise why do they have to be kept in camps.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 03:09 PM
cnredd's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Gender: Male
Posts: 55,374
Thanks: 2,260
Thanked 35,762 Times in 20,457 Posts
Default Re: Jimmy Carter Quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
Check it out redd. I watched these guys on Cspan talking about this. He admitted to calling other Jewish members. If they respected Carter so much why didn't they even attempt to contact him about their concerns. I'll tell you why. Because the way they did this it made a bigger impact. And made the point very clear to others who feel that there should be an open discussion. Their saying we don't even want to discuss it.
There are many issues that are completely undisscussable...

Would you meet with NAMBLA and legitimize their intentions by having a dialogue?...Would you want a face-to-face with Charles Manson so you can understand his concerns for intentionally tryiong to start a race war?...Would you go to a Klan rally and see if they'll listen to reasonable discussion?...

I wouldn't...And Meeting with a group that has fired thousands of rockets into civilian areas of Israel without caring who gets hit and supports sneaking people into Israel with bombvests so they can blow themselves up in the middle of a wedding or a market or a library or a dancehall is simply a group that is a damn good reason not to have discussions with them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
And BTW why isn't what is going on in this area a little like aparthied. South Africa was basically a middle class white population surrounded by refugee camps of poor blacks. The whites had all the power and militia and international support. While the folks in the camps were maligned and powerless. I can see plenty of parallels.
There are none...

The UN set this up and legitimized both areas in 1948...Isreal progressed and turned their side into a full-fledged democratic land with the most modern and technological advances while the people from the area falsely called "Palestine", instead of doing those very same things, decide to be irrational and blames others for their own failures...

Can you imagine how much "Palestinians" father would be from their stagnant living if the money spent on procuring rockets to fire into Israel were instead spent on their own infrastructure?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy View Post
And the idea that all Palestinians want is dead Israelis is a diversion and an attempt to dehumanize the PEOPLE living in these camps.
Bullsh*t...

Hamas was voted in by the people...

And here is the Hamas Charter...

Quote:
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeyy
Its easier to kill them if you just keep repeating the dumb **** Hamas says. People in this country are being convinced that these Palestinians are just a race of terrorists and murderers. Otherwise why do they have to be kept in camps.
They are kept in camps in Syria nd Lebanon, too...

Read this from last year...Lebanon Attacks Militants in Refugee Camp

Palestinians have lived in camps from from all sides, but only Israel gets the attacks simply because they're not Islamic...

If you knew how Palestinians are treated by other Muslims and Arabs, you'd see their failures are, in fact, in SPITE of Israel and not BECAUSE of them...
__________________
"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2008, 04:20 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: PNW
Gender: Male
Posts: 70,513
Thanks: 22,404
Thanked 18,921 Times in 13,936 Posts
Default Re: Jimmy Carter Quote

Well I guess it will never be over then. It will just keep drawing us in. I don't suppose you would concede that one people were showered with support from all over the world. While the other group received the boot. And who gave the U.N. the right to play imminent domain with the inhabitants of this area? And lastly what did the people who were forced from their land receive? And why no right to return to their homes?

End of the day this was a robbery in broad daylight. With the support of law enforcement. And the injustice of it is why rather then calming it stays at this level to this day. These Indians don't want to live on the reservation yet.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
carter, jimmy, quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0