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History, Geography, & Military Discuss New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’ at the Political Forums; Tell a Soldier he's loading "environmentally friendly" ammo into his M4 mag and he might be skeptical about whether it's ...

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Old 05-11-2011, 03:00 AM
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Post New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’

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Tell a Soldier he's loading "environmentally friendly" ammo into his M4 mag and he might be skeptical about whether it's as effective as its lead counterpart.

But Army officials here say the new M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round -- with its steel core instead of a toxic lead slug -- is far more effective than the current round, doubling the effective range and for the first time giving M4-wielding Joes the ability to penetrate barriers once reserved for higher-caliber rounds.

"There's a stigma among Soldiers about something that's 'green,' " said Lt. Col. Jeff Woods, the Army's small caliber ammunition product manager. "This is a clear case where making something environmentally friendly works for us."

Leveraging the science of 120mm tank rounds, Army engineers at Picatinny Arsenal, N.J. designed a 5.56mm rifle cartridge that incorporates a jacketed copper slug pushing a sharpened steel "penetrator." Testers showed during a May 4 demonstration here that the round can punch through quarter-inch steel armor out to 300 yards with ease.

"You normally wouldn't even think of a guy with a 5.56 going against a target with this kind of armor," said the Army Research Lab's Jim Newill, who lead the team that developed the M855A1 round. "Now we've more than doubled the ability to perforate [armored] targets."
New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ?Green?

Forget the reaction of the military personnel for having "green" ammunition.
The last paragraph will be all they'll need to hear.

Tell "Code Pink" (or a similar group) that the ammo is now green and see the conflicted response...
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Old 05-11-2011, 09:11 AM
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Default Re: New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ?Green?

Forget the reaction of the military personnel for having "green" ammunition.
The last paragraph will be all they'll need to hear.

Tell "Code Pink" (or a similar group) that the ammo is now green and see the conflicted response...

And at triple the price............a helluva deal
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Old 05-11-2011, 10:57 AM
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Default Re: New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’

Non toxic ammo has been around for many years in the hunting community. Conservation regulations outlawed the use of lead shot for waterfowl hunting many years ago. The initial alternative was steel shot. Being substainly lighter than lead it was way less lethal resulting in many crippled ducks and geese. Innovation prevailed. First there was shot made from bisumth (the active ingredient in Pepto Bismal). It was better than steel, but not as good as lead. The next generation is a tungsten/iron alloy. This is actually more lethal than lead because it is actually heavier and doesn't deform on impact. It is marketed today under a variety of brand names including HeviShot.

It surprises me that the so called "green" military incorporated steel rather than tungsten. It must be a cost consideration.
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:04 PM
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Default Re: New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’

Interesting round. I'm betting it will be even better in the 7.62. I rank amongst those that think the 5.56 is an excellent coyote round.
7.62 accept no substitutes.
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’

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Interesting round. I'm betting it will be even better in the 7.62. I rank amongst those that think the 5.56 is an excellent coyote round.
7.62 accept no substitutes.
Unfortunatly the military doesn't use the 7.62 (.308) much anymore.

The 5.56 (.223) is a lethal military round. The fast rifle twist 8 or 9 (I think )and the fast muzzle velocity causes it to tumble on impact creating a substaintial wound tract.
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’

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Unfortunatly the military doesn't use the 7.62 (.308) much anymore.

The 5.56 (.223) is a lethal military round. The fast rifle twist 8 or 9 (I think )and the fast muzzle velocity causes it to tumble on impact creating a substaintial wound tract.
But at a distance. In the Nam most of the fighting was 20 to 80 meters IMO.

We were clearing an area and on line when I broke into a clearing as a VC came out of a hut.

He started to run and I hit him in the hip 3 times with an M-16. He kept running till he ran into a Sgt. with a shot gun. He was a money carrier as we found penty of MPC and Viet-Nam cash in a money belt just above where I hit him.

My platoon Sgt. said I missed so we rolled him over face down and there were 3 hits in his butt with a bit of a blood from each wound.

Thats when I asked to carry the M-60..

Back to this bit of good news. It supports the Military R&D projects.

Nice find foundit66.
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:02 PM
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Default Re: New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’

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But at a distance. In the Nam most of the fighting was 20 to 80 meters IMO.

We were clearing an area and on line when I broke into a clearing as a VC came out of a hut.

He started to run and I hit him in the hip 3 times with an M-16. He kept running till he ran into a Sgt. with a shot gun. He was a money carrier as we found penty of MPC and Viet-Nam cash in a money belt just above where I hit him.

My platoon Sgt. said I missed so we rolled him over face down and there were 3 hits in his butt with a bit of a blood from each wound.

Thats when I asked to carry the M-60..

Back to this bit of good news. It supports the Military R&D projects.

Nice find foundit66.
Good ole' shotgun

M60..one heavy chunk of iron to hump around
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Old 05-11-2011, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’

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Good ole' shotgun

M60..one heavy chunk of iron to hump around
Yes compared to the M-16 but the fire power/knock down power is awesome...

But when the ejector goes out it is one heavy single shot mess.

It happened to me while we were on the road for 18 days. Near the end of this road patrol we got hit and the ejector went bad. Here I was on top of a jeep with the gun mounted and I had to use my bayonet after each shot after opening up the feed tray to eject the shell casing.

Then putting back the ammo and charging the weapon to take one shot. Then doing it all over again.

Lucky that was the only time we got hit on that mission. When we got back to base camp I was at the armory trying to get a newer M-60. Which I got because they didn't have the parts to repair it.

But evey time in the field it worked great. I was young and bulked up so I never minded. And before the gun I was the Lt. RTO which is like a second target when we got hit. And it weigh about the same as the M-60 with a spare battery.

I felt I traded up even though the gunner was always a target to.
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Old 05-11-2011, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’

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Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
Yes compared to the M-16 but the fire power/knock down power is awesome...

But when the ejector goes out it is one heavy single shot mess.

It happened to me while we were on the road for 18 days. Near the end of this road patrol we got hit and the ejector went bad. Here I was on top of a jeep with the gun mounted and I had to use my bayonet after each shot after opening up the feed tray to eject the shell casing.

Then putting back the ammo and charging the weapon to take one shot. Then doing it all over again.

Lucky that was the only time we got hit on that mission. When we got back to base camp I was at the armory trying to get a newer M-60. Which I got because they didn't have the parts to repair it.

But evey time in the field it worked great. I was young and bulked up so I never minded. And before the gun I was the Lt. RTO which is like a second target when we got hit. And it weigh about the same as the M-60 with a spare battery.

I felt I traded up even though the gunner was always a target to.
Now they have the SAW (squad automatic weapon) I believe it is 5.56.
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Old 05-11-2011, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: New Army Ammo Puts Mean in ‘Green’

Speaking of shotguns:

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