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History, Geography, & Military Discuss How would you have handled Iraq? at the Political Forums; No 20/20 hindsight allowed. Here's the situation as it stands when you make your call: Life Under Saddam Hussein Life ...

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Old 04-07-2011, 02:52 PM
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Default How would you have handled Iraq?

No 20/20 hindsight allowed. Here's the situation as it stands when you make your call:
Life Under Saddam Hussein

Quote:
Life Under Saddam Hussein
Past Repression and Atrocities by Saddam Hussein's Regime

For over 20 years, the greatest threat to Iraqis has been Saddam Hussein's regime -- he has killed, tortured, raped and terrorized the Iraqi people and his neighbors for over two decades.

When Iraq is free, past crimes against humanity and war crimes committed against Iraqis, will be accounted for, in a post-conflict Iraqi-led process. The United States, members of the coalition and international community will work with the Iraqi people to build a strong and credible judicial process to address these abuses.

Under Saddam's regime many hundreds of thousands of people have died as a result of his actions - the vast majority of them Muslims.

According to a 2001 Amnesty International report, "victims of torture in Iraq are subjected to a wide range of forms of torture, including the gouging out of eyes, severe beatings and electric shocks... some victims have died as a result and many have been left with permanent physical and psychological damage."

Saddam has had approximately 40 of his own relatives murdered.

Allegations of prostitution used to intimidate opponents of the regime, have been used by the regime to justify the barbaric beheading of women.

Documented chemical attacks by the regime, from 1983 to 1988, resulted in some 30,000 Iraqi and Iranian deaths.

Human Rights Watch estimates that Saddam's 1987-1988 campaign of terror against the Kurds killed at least 50,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Kurds. o The Iraqi regime used chemical agents to include mustard gas and nerve agents in attacks against at least 40 Kurdish villages between 1987-1988. The largest was the attack on Halabja which resulted in approximately 5,000 deaths. o 2,000 Kurdish villages were destroyed during the campaign of terror.

Iraq's 13 million Shi'a Muslims, the majority of Iraq's population of approximately 22 million, face severe restrictions on their religious practice, including a ban on communal Friday prayer, and restriction on funeral processions.

According to Human Rights Watch, "senior Arab diplomats told the London-based Arabic daily newspaper al-Hayat in October [1991] that Iraqi leaders were privately acknowledging that 250,000 people were killed during the uprisings, with most of the casualties in the south." Refugees International reports that the "Oppressive government policies have led to the internal displacement of 900,000 Iraqis, primarily Kurds who have fled to the north to escape Saddam Hussein's Arabization campaigns (which involve forcing Kurds to renounce their Kurdish identity or lose their property) and Marsh Arabs, who fled the government's campaign to dry up the southern marshes for agricultural use. More than 200,000 Iraqis continue to live as refugees in Iran."

The U.S. Committee for Refugees, in 2002, estimated that nearly 100,000 Kurds, Assyrians and Turkomans had previously been expelled, by the regime, from the "central-government-controlled Kirkuk and surrounding districts in the oil-rich region bordering the Kurdish controlled north."

"Over the past five years, 400,000 Iraqi children under the age of five died of malnutrition and disease, preventively, but died because of the nature of the regime under which they are living." (Prime Minister Tony Blair, March 27, 2003) o Under the oil-for-food program, the international community sought to make available to the Iraqi people adequate supplies of food and medicine, but the regime blocked sufficient access for international workers to ensure proper distribution of these supplies. o Since the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom, coalition forces have discovered military warehouses filled with food supplies meant for the Iraqi people that had been diverted by Iraqi military forces.

The Iraqi regime has repeatedly refused visits by human rights monitors. From 1992 until 2002, Saddam prevented the UN Special Rapporteur from visiting Iraq.

The UN Special Rapporteur's September 2001, report criticized the regime for "the sheer number of executions," the number of "extrajudicial executions on political grounds," and "the absence of a due process of the law."

Executions: Saddam Hussein's regime has carried out frequent summary executions, including: o 4,000 prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in 1984 o 3,000 prisoners at the Mahjar prison from 1993-1998 o 2,500 prisoners were executed between 1997-1999 in a "prison cleansing campaign" o 122 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in February/March 2000 o 23 political prisoners were executed at Abu Ghraib prison in October 2001 o At least 130 Iraqi women were beheaded between June 2000 and April 2001
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Old 04-07-2011, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: How would you have handled Iraq?

I would have handled it the same way we have handled the USSR, China, and every other sovereign nation in which citizens have been mistreated. When a country of citizens is sufficiently fed up and willing to do what it takes, revolution will happen. I understand what you are saying, but I don't see it as our obligation to relieve the suffering of the world at large, and my war stance is one of strict defense and not offense. The primary thing we have created with all our money, soldiers' lives, and good intentions is situations where countries who aren't ready for democracy become dependent on us, then turn to hate us.
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: How would you have handled Iraq?

Trying not to have any hindsight is like being in court and listening to the judge when he says "I want for you to disregard that comment". Ok you will but you really can't.

With that being said, WMD has to be put in the mix when deciding what to do. Ignoring the Bush haters (you know how stupid he was yet he was also the most brilliant creator of the WMD story that everyone bought), WMD has be be considered.

If I am to base this on the new "Obama Doctrine", in we go as we did.
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: How would you have handled Iraq?

I would take out Saddam's air defenses and begin removing his regime.
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: How would you have handled Iraq?

I would have finished the job in 91 instead of appeasing the UN.
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Old 04-08-2011, 03:14 AM
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Post Re: How would you have handled Iraq?

I wouldn't have shown favoritism in presenting which "evidence" to present to the people.

When "Curveball" was presenting his claims, I would have also weighed the fact that the Germans had serious issues with "their informant" instead of trying to present his statements as fact.

When the UN investigation team got into Iraq and found no evidence of WMDs, I wouldn't have been so quick to discount what would later turn out to be just plain obvious truth.

One of the HUGE areas where Bush really just plain screwed up was his tactic of favoring the "he's got WMDs" pseudo-information, while down-playing the other side of the issue.

I think Bush should get credit for his efforts which basically drove the capability of the UN inspection team to get into Iraq.
Unfortunately, his over-reach afterwards eclipses this accomplishment.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzie
I would have handled it the same way we have handled the USSR, China, and every other sovereign nation in which citizens have been mistreated. When a country of citizens is sufficiently fed up and willing to do what it takes, revolution will happen. I understand what you are saying, but I don't see it as our obligation to relieve the suffering of the world at large, and my war stance is one of strict defense and not offense. The primary thing we have created with all our money, soldiers' lives, and good intentions is situations where countries who aren't ready for democracy become dependent on us, then turn to hate us.
I just wanted to see that repeated...
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Old 04-08-2011, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: How would you have handled Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
No 20/20 hindsight allowed. Here's the situation as it stands when you make your call:
Life Under Saddam Hussein
The Kurds asked us for help and we helped them. I would have done the same if those were the circumstances.
I also would have helped the Libyans who asked for help.
Of course we didn't see Kurds with signs saying "HELP!" but that was before twitter and youtube and other up to the minute/user friendly communication sources.
edited:
and not send
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:34 AM
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Default Re: How would you have handled Iraq?

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I wouldn't have shown favoritism in presenting which "evidence" to present to the people.

When "Curveball" was presenting his claims, I would have also weighed the fact that the Germans had serious issues with "their informant" instead of trying to present his statements as fact.

When the UN investigation team got into Iraq and found no evidence of WMDs, I wouldn't have been so quick to discount what would later turn out to be just plain obvious truth.

One of the HUGE areas where Bush really just plain screwed up was his tactic of favoring the "he's got WMDs" pseudo-information, while down-playing the other side of the issue.

I think Bush should get credit for his efforts which basically drove the capability of the UN inspection team to get into Iraq.
Unfortunately, his over-reach afterwards eclipses this accomplishment.



I just wanted to see that repeated...
Violation of the "No 20/20 hindsight allowed" rule. Typical Lib.
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Old 04-08-2011, 09:30 AM
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Default Re: How would you have handled Iraq?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I wouldn't have shown favoritism in presenting which "evidence" to present to the people.

When "Curveball" was presenting his claims, I would have also weighed the fact that the Germans had serious issues with "their informant" instead of trying to present his statements as fact.

When the UN investigation team got into Iraq and found no evidence of WMDs, I wouldn't have been so quick to discount what would later turn out to be just plain obvious truth.

One of the HUGE areas where Bush really just plain screwed up was his tactic of favoring the "he's got WMDs" pseudo-information, while down-playing the other side of the issue.

I think Bush should get credit for his efforts which basically drove the capability of the UN inspection team to get into Iraq.
Unfortunately, his over-reach afterwards eclipses this accomplishment.



I just wanted to see that repeated...
that was very nice....

Now then, how about trying it without the 20/20 hindisght...
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Old 04-08-2011, 01:08 PM
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Default Re: How would you have handled Iraq?

It's not so much the "how" as it is the "when". I would have invaded Iraq in 1991 after they invaded Kuwait. Then I would have fully occupied Iraq until a new government was in place and run under rules set up by us and our allies, much like was done with Germany and Japan after their surrender. Also, I would have done this completely independent of the UN.
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