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History, Geography, & Military Discuss The Abraham Lincoln Legacy at the Political Forums; At the risk of pissing people off, I'm going to make some unpopular observations and comments about Mr Abraham Lincoln ...

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Old 03-06-2011, 08:28 PM
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Default The Abraham Lincoln Legacy

At the risk of pissing people off, I'm going to make some unpopular observations and comments about Mr Abraham Lincoln and his presidency.

There was no civil war in the United States.
A civil war is when two or more factions fight over the control of a central government. The south was not trying to take over the federal government, they were trying to leave an oppressive federal government and establish their own government. Very similar to the revolutionary war that we are all so proud of.

The popular (and misinformed) opinion of Mr. Lincolnís legacy is that he ended slavery. Let me remind the misinformed that the Emancipation Proclamation was signed into law after the war was already occurring. It also did not free all the slaves, just those that were in confederate states.

Mr Lincoln was no great liberator, in fact, in the Lincoln-Douglas debate in 1858, Mr Lincoln had this to say,
"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races...I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

Mr Lincoln was a racist.

States rights were one of the corner stones of the US Constitution.
The war between the states was an aggressive act designed to place the authority of the federal government over the authority of the individual states. Since that war, states rights have been eroded consistently and the federal government has continued to flex its muscle in denying states rights. Mr Lincolnís action set forth a path of federal government intrusion and violation of the US Constitution and that is what his legacy should be about, not the bs that schoolchildren are taught about him.

------------------------------------
I posted the above at another message board on 02/27/2011 (I can provide a link if anybody doubts me).
Today, this comes out in the news, New book sheds new light on Lincoln's racial views - Yahoo! News
snip,
Quote:
"For the sake of your race, you should sacrifice something of your present comfort for the purpose of being as grand in that respect as the white people," Lincoln said, promoting his idea of colonization: resettling blacks in foreign countries on the belief that whites and blacks could not coexist in the same nation.

Lincoln went on to say that free blacks who envisioned a permanent life in the United States were being "selfish" and he promoted Central America as an ideal location "especially because of the similarity of climate with your native land ó thus being suited to your physical condition."
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:17 AM
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Default Re: The Abraham Lincoln Legacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by alan View Post
At the risk of pissing people off, I'm going to make some unpopular observations and comments about Mr Abraham Lincoln and his presidency.

There was no civil war in the United States.
A civil war is when two or more factions fight over the control of a central government. The south was not trying to take over the federal government, they were trying to leave an oppressive federal government and establish their own government. Very similar to the revolutionary war that we are all so proud of.

The popular (and misinformed) opinion of Mr. Lincolnís legacy is that he ended slavery. Let me remind the misinformed that the Emancipation Proclamation was signed into law after the war was already occurring. It also did not free all the slaves, just those that were in confederate states.

Mr Lincoln was no great liberator, in fact, in the Lincoln-Douglas debate in 1858, Mr Lincoln had this to say,
"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races...I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And in as much as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

Mr Lincoln was a racist.

States rights were one of the corner stones of the US Constitution.
The war between the states was an aggressive act designed to place the authority of the federal government over the authority of the individual states. Since that war, states rights have been eroded consistently and the federal government has continued to flex its muscle in denying states rights. Mr Lincolnís action set forth a path of federal government intrusion and violation of the US Constitution and that is what his legacy should be about, not the bs that schoolchildren are taught about him.

------------------------------------
I posted the above at another message board on 02/27/2011 (I can provide a link if anybody doubts me).
Today, this comes out in the news, New book sheds new light on Lincoln's racial views - Yahoo! News
snip,
I have argued similarly about ole Honest Abe, and many people have questioned my sanity and education.

Good Post!
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Old 03-08-2011, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: The Abraham Lincoln Legacy

I would tend to agree with you. I believe that whatever decisions Lincoln made were because they were politically or militarily expedient. He probably hoped that freeing the slaves would cause unrest and disorder in the South, not because he was some great humanitarian.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:41 AM
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Default Re: The Abraham Lincoln Legacy

A person can be a flaming racist and still be against human slavery - there's nothing contradictory about the two positions.

Lincoln didn't mind ignoring the Constitution concerning habeus corpus and separation of powers - I suppose the jury will never reach a verdict on that, considering that the country was coming apart.

As far as states' rights are concerned vis-ŗ-vis the War of Northern Aggression, had the Federal guv'mint not taken a dominant position then every time some little tin pot state governor got P-O'd the original U.S. would have continued to divide into ever smaller republics and confederations until one or more of the European powers conquered them all. Not a good thing.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: The Abraham Lincoln Legacy

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Originally Posted by jabbo View Post
A person can be a flaming racist and still be against human slavery - there's nothing contradictory about the two positions.

Lincoln didn't mind ignoring the Constitution concerning habeus corpus and separation of powers - I suppose the jury will never reach a verdict on that, considering that the country was coming apart.

As far as states' rights are concerned vis-ŗ-vis the War of Northern Aggression, had the Federal guv'mint not taken a dominant position then every time some little tin pot state governor got P-O'd the original U.S. would have continued to divide into ever smaller republics and confederations until one or more of the European powers conquered them all. Not a good thing.
Speculation at best.

Who is in a better position to decide what is right for a state, the people that live in that state or a politician far removed living in Washington?

Right now we have a tinhorn dictator in Washington by the name of obama who thinks he knows what is best for everyone, and you know something, HE DON'T!
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: The Abraham Lincoln Legacy

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Speculation at best.
Nope - simple observations of human nature - look at all the different church denominations and sub-denominations - almost all of which came about because a few folks got their panties in a wad about something that didn't go their way.

Then there's the long history of human attempts at conquest.

You can hope it wouldn't turn out that way, but history says it's a false hope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
Who is in a better position to decide what is right for a state, the people that live in that state or a politician far removed living in Washington?

Right now we have a tinhorn dictator in Washington by the name of obama who thinks he knows what is best for everyone, and you know something, HE DON'T!
Aren't ya glad the Founders established a separate bicameral legislature along with a judicial branch to keep that tinhorn dictator in line?
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: The Abraham Lincoln Legacy

It's been a month, so far nobody has presented a valid argument against my above statements concerning Mr Lincolns racist behavior or wanton disregard of the US Constitution.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: The Abraham Lincoln Legacy

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It's been a month, so far nobody has presented a valid argument against my above statements concerning Mr Lincolns racist behavior or wanton disregard of the US Constitution.
They can't cuz you're right.
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