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History, Geography, & Military Discuss U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis at the Political Forums; From USA Today 1/15/2011 U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis - USATODAY.com BAGHDAD (AP) — Two U.S. troops were killed ...

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Old 01-15-2011, 12:30 PM
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Default U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis

From USA Today
1/15/2011
U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis - USATODAY.com
Quote:
BAGHDAD (AP) — Two U.S. troops were killed Saturday by an Iraqi soldier who apparently smuggled real bullets into a training exercise and opened fire, raising fresh concerns about insurgents worming into the nation's security forces as the Americans prepare to leave by the year's end.

A U.S. military official said the shooter was immediately killed by American soldiers who were running the morning drill at a training center on a U.S. base in the northern city of Mosul. The U.S. official said the exercise was not meant to involve live ammunition, and an Iraqi army officer said the shooting appeared to have been planned.
Once again I'm reminded, that while we here in the States are constantly bombarded with expressions of faux outrage from a gaggle of, sexual, social, and ethnic groups squealing to the Heavens that they have been offended and suffered emotional distress because they have been criticized, snubbed, disliked or not compensated for supposed minor or historical wrongs, the First Fruits of our Manhood come under actual lethal fire, suffering death and maiming from quasi-primitive savages abroad.
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Old 01-15-2011, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis

we need to leave Iraq and whatever happens to it so be it. The Iraqi's want us out anyway and are not very grateful for the assistance that we have provided them. Get out now and quit wasting American soldiers on this desert sand trap!
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Old 01-15-2011, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis

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we need to leave Iraq and whatever happens to it so be it. The Iraqi's want us out anyway and are not very grateful for the assistance that we have provided them. Get out now and quit wasting American soldiers on this desert sand trap!
I have a different slant. I believe that there is great potential in the Nation Building concept, just look at modern Germany and modern Japan.

The thing that we as Americans seem unable to stomach though, is that for an occupation to produce the desired results, it must be long enough to essentially retire the generation in power in the occupied country when it began. That is, twenty to forty years.

Also the subjugated people of the country must be made made to understand by a crushing majority that it was the defective aspects of their culture that made the occupation necessary. You cannot get the desired result with the approach that "you were abused by a radical minority." One must force the occupied people to accept that "they brought this upon themselves."

Do you remember that the American didn't shield the German citizens from the horrors of the Exterminations Camps? The forced them to walk through them , see and smell the piles of rotting bodies. They almost literally rubbed their noses in what they had allowed to be done in their name.
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╠═════════════════════════════════════╣

“Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making!”
Or if you're a traditionalist,
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And children, say it like you mean it!

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Old 01-15-2011, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
I have a different slant. I believe that there is great potential in the Nation Building concept, just look at modern Germany and modern Japan.

The thing that we as Americans seem unable to stomach though, is that for an occupation to produce the desired results, it must be long enough to essentially retire the generation in power in the occupied country when it began. That is, twenty to forty years.

Also the subjugated people of the country must be made made to understand by a crushing majority that it was the defective aspects of their culture that made the occupation necessary. You cannot get the desired result with the approach that "you were abused by a radical minority." One must force the occupied people to accept that "they brought this upon themselves."

Do you remember that the American didn't shield the German citizens from the horrors of the Exterminations Camps? The forced them to walk through them , see and smell the piles of rotting bodies. They almost literally rubbed their noses in what they had allowed to be done in their name.
We didn't "build" Germany and Japan into their present incarnations - they already had the potential to become "members in good standing", as it were, of the global community. A lot of Muslim nations aren't anywhere close to that potential - your comparison is baseless.
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis

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We didn't "build" Germany and Japan into their present incarnations - they already had the potential to become "members in good standing", as it were, of the global community. A lot of Muslim nations aren't anywhere close to that potential - your comparison is baseless.
There status as "nations in good standing," would have no doubt come as something of a surprise to the US troops engaged in summary executions of "Werewolves" , (look it up,) shelling one town in retaliating for an attack on servicemen, those conducting the extensive "De-Notification" programs and the provisional governments.
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Old 01-16-2011, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
There status as "nations in good standing," would have no doubt come as something of a surprise to the US troops engaged in summary executions of "Werewolves" , (look it up,) shelling one town in retaliating for an attack on servicemen, those conducting the extensive "De-Notification" programs and the provisional governments.
No, you elitist A-Hole, you look it up. To repeat myself, Germany and Japan are so far removed from the Islamic Middle Eastern countries that an elementary school student would have understood my point. It's a pity that you can't rise to that level.
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis

Some reading for you:

The Miami News - Google News Archive Search

The Calgary Herald - Google News Archive Search

The Milwaukee Sentinel - Google News Archive Search

The Evening Independent - Google News Archive Search

Toledo Blade - Google News Archive Search

The Washington Reporter - Google News Archive Search

Spokane Daily Chronicle - Google News Archive Search

Ellensburg Daily Record - Google News Archive Search

The Lewiston Daily Sun - Google News Archive Search

The Calgary Herald - Google News Archive Search


You'll note that all of these articles involve the imposition of new governments, institutions and norms, by force, against your posited "nations in good standing." Today, we call that "Nation building."

That should keep you busy wiuth your studies for a while. Remember, that i don't have the time to do all of your research for you. At some point, you'll need to demonstrate tht you can do your own, and understand it before you post.
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“Quod scripsi, scripsi"

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣

“Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making!”
Or if you're a traditionalist,
“Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha!”
And children, say it like you mean it!

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
Some reading for you:

The Miami News - Google News Archive Search

The Calgary Herald - Google News Archive Search

The Milwaukee Sentinel - Google News Archive Search

The Evening Independent - Google News Archive Search

Toledo Blade - Google News Archive Search

The Washington Reporter - Google News Archive Search

Spokane Daily Chronicle - Google News Archive Search

Ellensburg Daily Record - Google News Archive Search

The Lewiston Daily Sun - Google News Archive Search

The Calgary Herald - Google News Archive Search


You'll note that all of these articles involve the imposition of new governments, institutions and norms, by force, against your posited "nations in good standing." Today, we call that "Nation building."

That should keep you busy wiuth your studies for a while. Remember, that i don't have the time to do all of your research for you. At some point, you'll need to demonstrate tht you can do your own, and understand it before you post.
Wow. I must have touched a nerve.
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis

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Wow. I must have touched a nerve.
Only the one associated with my disdain at having to instruct the unmotivated young.
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╠═════════════════════════════════════╣

“Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making!”
Or if you're a traditionalist,
“Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha!”
And children, say it like you mean it!

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: U.S. soldiers killed while training Iraqis

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No, you elitist A-Hole. . ..
I have been accused of many things, but elitism is a new one. My success as a man of humility is rightfully praised by my inferiors, far and wide, a beacon of self effacement to the small, and lowly.
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“Quod scripsi, scripsi"

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣

“Serpent's breath, charm of death and life, thy omen of making!”
Or if you're a traditionalist,
“Anál nathrach, orth’ bháis’s bethad, do chél dénmha!”
And children, say it like you mean it!

╠═════════════════════════════════════╣
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