Political Wrinkles  

Go Back   Political Wrinkles > Political Forums > History, Geography, & Military
Register FAQDonate PW Store PW Trivia Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

History, Geography, & Military Discuss "Cordova" The ground zero "victory" mosque: historical perspective at the Political Forums; The Pan Islamic Empire is the modern incarnation of the Ottoman Empire. Traditionally, the OE would conquer an area, and ...

Reply
 
Share LinkBack (1) Thread Tools Display Modes
  1 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2010, 06:20 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,659
Thanks: 2,655
Thanked 1,322 Times in 895 Posts
Default "Cordova" The ground zero "victory" mosque: historical perspective

The Pan Islamic Empire is the modern incarnation of the Ottoman Empire.
Traditionally, the OE would conquer an area, and convert a church to a mosque, or tear it down and build a mosque in it's place.
Nothing has changed, apparently. Two blocks from ground zero is the closest they can get.
Terrorism isn't about Islam? Really?*
It's not a "victory mosque" you say? Not meant to be an affront to Americans?
Why has Imam Rauf named it that?

Let's take a look at the name "Cordova".

Córdoba (also Cordova) is a city in Andalusia, southern Spain, and the capital of the province of Córdoba. An Iberian and Roman city in ancient times, in the Middle Ages it was a capital of an Islamic caliphate and one of the largest cities in the world. Its population in 2008 was 325,453.
About HotelsCordova.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Great Mosque of Córdoba, or the Mezquita, was converted by the Umayyad Moors from the Visigothic Christian church, and now houses the Catedral de Córdoba, or Catedral de Nuestra Señora de la Asunción. They are located in the Andalusian city of Córdoba, Spain. The mosque is regarded as perhaps the most accomplished monument of the Umayyad Caliphate of Córdoba.
Great Mosque of Córdoba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Muslims took control under the leadership of Tariq ibn Ziyad and his army of 12,000 troops.

Al-Andalus, which means, "to become green at the end of the summer" is referred to the territory occupied by the Muslim empire in Southern Spain, which refer to the cities of Almeria, Malaga, Cadiz, Huelva, Seville, Cordoba, Jaen and Granada. This civilization spanned the eighth to the fifteenth century. In 711, Arabs crossed the Straight of Gibraltar and established control over much of the Iberian Peninsula. Of the Arab conquest, Muslims called the area of the Iberian Peninsula they occupied, "Al-Andalus."

As an important reminder, during Islamic rule in Muslim history, we recall that upon hearing the news that a Muslim woman had been dishonored, Khilafah (Caliph) Jafer Al-Mansoor, despite risk of inciting war, ordered his entire army to burn the city in protest because the Roman Emperor failed to punish the offenders.

The Islamic civilization had reached its peak in the 10th century, and by 1100, the number of Muslims rose to 5.6 million. 18 There existed in Cordoba alone, 200,000 houses, 600 mosques..... http://www.hispanicm.../andalusia.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pan-Islam. Movements to unify the Muslim world, particularly in reaction against Western threats of encroachment. Theoretically, Pan-Islam is a natural expression of the fundamental and necessary Muslim concept of ʾumma, but its realization in practice is elusive.
http://www.encyclope...n-Islamism.aspx
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Pan-Islamism or the idea of creating a united Muslim front against the common threat of foreign imperialism was one of several ideologies articulated during the second half of the nineteenth century in response to the growing domination of the Islamic world by European powers. It is generally understood that pan-Islamism began in the Ottoman empire during the second half of the nineteenth century. The origins of pan-Islamic ideas, however, can be traced back to 1774, when the *Ottomans first used Islam as a political and ideological weapon not only to counter the threat posed by Europe, but also to secure their religious and cultural influence in the Muslim populated Crimea which they had ceded to Tsarist Russia after suffering a humiliating defeat in the Russo-Ottoman war of 1768-74.The territorial disintegration of the Ottoman state, the increasing domination of the Islamic world by European powers, and the emergence of a unified German state as a major power on the continent gave rise to anti-European sentiments. As the news of European occupation of Muslim lands in North Africa, the Caucasus, and Central Asia spread throughout the Ottoman empire, the appeal of Islamic unity also grew in strength.
http://www.highbeam....1-18105026.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Isn't it interesting that translations of the Koran, in the 1800s - that promote violence against "infidels" - coincided with the rise of Pan Islamic sentiment?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's an article that someone else posted elsewhere that is helpful:
Thanks to FrankG for providing this information:

Islam center's eerie echo of ancient terror

Posted: 5:34 AM, September 10, 2010
Amir Taheri

Should there be a mosque near Ground Zero? In fact, what is pro posed is not a mosque -- nor even an "Islamic cultural center."

In Islam, every structure linked to the faith and its rituals has a precise function and character. A mosque is a one-story gallery built around an atrium with a mihrab (a niche pointing to Mecca) and one, or in the case of Shiites two, minarets.

Other Islamic structures, such as harams, zawiyyahs, husseinyiahs and takiyahs, also obey strict architectural rules. Yet the building used for spreading the faith is known as Dar al-Tabligh, or House of Proselytizing.

The Ground Zero project doesn't fit the traditional minaret.

This 13-story multifunctional structure couldn't be any of the above.
The groups fighting for the project know this; this is why they sometimes call it an Islamic cultural center. But there is no such thing as an Islamic culture.

Islam is a religion, not a culture. Each of the 57 Muslim-majority nations has its own distinct culture -- and the Bengali culture has little in common with the Nigerian. Then, too, most of those countries have their own cultural offices in the US, especially in New York.

Islam is an ingredient in dozens of cultures, not a culture on its own.
In theory, at least, the culture of American Muslims should be American. Of course, this being America, each ethnic community has its distinct cultural memories -- the Iranians in Los Angeles are different from the Arabs in Dearborn.

In fact, the proposed structure is known in Islamic history as a rabat -- literally a connector.

The first rabat appeared at the time of the Prophet.

The Prophet imposed his rule on parts of Arabia through a series of ghazvas, or razzias (the origin of the English word "raid"). The ghazva was designed to terrorize the infidels, convince them that their civilization was doomed and force them to submit to Islamic rule. Those who participated in the ghazva were known as the ghazis, or raiders.

After each ghazva, the Prophet ordered the creation of a rabat -- or a point of contact at the heart of the infidel territory raided. The rabat consisted of an area for prayer, a section for the raiders to eat and rest and facilities to train and prepare for future razzias. Later Muslim rulers used the tactic of ghazva to conquer territory in the Persian and Byzantine empires. After each raid, they built a rabat to prepare for the next razzia.

It is no coincidence that Islamists routinely use the term ghazva to describe the 9/11 attacks against New York and Washington. The terrorists who carried out the attack are referred to as ghazis or shahids (martyrs).

Thus, building a rabat close to Ground Zero would be in accordance with a tradition started by the Prophet. To all those who believe and hope that the 9/11 ghazva would lead to the destruction of the American "Great Satan," this would be of great symbolic value.

Faced with the anger of New Yorkers, the promoters of the project have started calling it the Cordoba House, echoing President Obama's assertion that it would be used to propagate "moderate" Islam.

The argument is that Cordoba, in southern Spain, was a city where followers of Islam, Christianity and Judaism lived together in peace and produced literature and philosophy.

In fact, Cordoba's history is full of stories of oppression and massacre, prompted by religious fanaticism. It is true that the Muslim rulers of Cordoba didn't force their Christian and Jewish subjects to accept Islam. However, non-Muslims could keep their faith and enjoy state protection only as dhimmis (bonded ones) by paying a poll tax in a system of religious apartheid.

If whatever peace and harmony that is supposed to have existed in Cordoba were the fruit of "Muslim rule," the subtext is that the United States would enjoy similar peace and harmony under Islamic rule.

A rabat in the heart of Manhattan would be of great symbolic value to those who want a high-profile, "in your face" projection of Islam in the infidel West.

This thirst for visibility is translated into increasingly provocative forms of hijab, notably the niqab (mask) and the burqa. The same quest mobilized hundreds of Muslims in Paris the other day to close a whole street so that they could have a Ramadan prayer in the middle of the rush hour.

One of those taking part in the demonstration told French radio that the aim was to "show we are here." "You used to be in our capitals for centuries," he said. "Now, it is our turn to be in the heart of your cities."

Before deciding whether to support or oppose the "Cordoba" project, New Yorkers should consider what it is that they would be buying.
http://www.nypost.co....RTMW6TprkULnaA 1Nqi9xM#ixzz0zP5zZfuX
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I know it's a lot of info, but it's very important for perspective. If you were patient enough to read it all, I thank you.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Trinnity For This Useful Post:
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2010, 10:11 PM
Coyote's Avatar
Vole deMorte (the snack)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 14,402
Thanks: 11,519
Thanked 8,224 Times in 5,270 Posts
Default Re: "Cordova" The ground zero "victory" mosque: historical perspective

Lets take another look at Cordoba - what does Cordoba symbolize? I posted this in another thread...I think it's worth repeating in light of all this misinformation.

According to Wikipedia: It was captured in 711[3] by a Muslim army: in 716 it became a provincial capital, depending from the Caliphate of Damascus; in Arabic it was known as قرطبة (Qurṭuba). In May 766, it was elected as capital of the independent Muslim emirate of al-Andalus, later a Caliphate itself. During the caliphate apogee (1000 AD), Córdoba had a population of roughly 400,000 inhabitants,[4] though estimates range between 250,000 and 500,000. In the 10th-11th centuries Córdoba was one of the most advanced cities in the world, as well as a great cultural, political, financial and economic centre. The Great Mosque of Córdoba dates back to this time; under caliph Al-Hakam II Córdoba received what was then the largest library in the world, housing from 400,000 to 1,000,000 volumes.


According to Newt Gingrich: .... "the capital of Muslim conquerors who symbolized their victory over Christian Spaniards by transforming a church there into the world's third-largest mosque complex." This fact, the transformation of a church into a mosque, is the only thing we should think of when we hear a modern Muslim use the word "Cordoba," according to Mr. Gingrich.

According to this interesting Medievil historian, there is considerable doubt cast upon Mr. Gingrich's hystorical synopsis of Cordoba, the Mosque and Church.


Quote:
...
Still, the Muslims did "transform" a Christian church, didn't they? Possibly, but only in a very qualified sense. Most standard histories of Cordoba will note that the Great Mosque is built on the site of the Basilica of St Vincent, Martyr, a Visigothic church that was itself built on the ruins of a Roman pagan temple. And archaeological work has confirmed that the present site of the Mosque did at one time belong to some sort of Christian church. There's no indication that the present-day structure included any elements from that church, though, and exactly when it was razed and under what circumstances is unclear.

He goes on to say:


Quote:
This is the important fact that Newt hopes those who read his polemic will be ignorant of: for a ruler to be legitimate in Muslim eyes in the tenth century, during the time when the Great Mosque was being expanded into its present-day dimensions, it was important to emphasize the peaceful succession of Islam from the other religions in the area. A caliph was expected to have arrived at an accord with the Christians and Jews over which he ruled.****** Far from "symboliz[ing] their victory" the Mosque was held up by Muslim historians a symbol of peaceful coexistence with the Christians--however messier the actual relations of Christians and Muslims were at the time.*******


...and:

Quote:
So what should modern Christians think when they hear a Muslim use the word "Cordoba"? Well, I know that Newt hasn't been a Catholic for very long now, but maybe his priest ought to direct him to read a little thing called "The Catholic Encyclopedia". Allow me to quote from the 1917 edition (which has the virtue of being in the public domain and easily searchable) and its entry on Cordoba:


In 786 the Arab caliph, Abd-er Rahman I, began the construction of the great mosque of Cordova, now the cathedral, and compelled many Christians to take part in the preparation of the site and foundations. Though they suffered many vexations, the Christians continued to enjoy freedom of worship, and this tolerant attitude of the ameers seduced not a few Christians from their original allegiance. Both Christians and Arabs co-operated at this time to make Cordova a flourishing city, the elegant refinement of which was unequalled in Europe.



The article then discusses the persecution of the Christians under Abd-ar-Ramman II, which included the martyrdom of St. Eulogius. Then it continues with the rule of those rulers who expanded the Mosque:

In 962 Abd-er Rahman III was succeeded by his son Al-Hakim. Owing to the peace which the Christians of Cordova then enjoyed [...] the citizens of Cordova, Arabs, Christians, and Jews, enjoyed so high a degree of literary culture that the city was known as the New Athens. From all quarters came students eager to drink at its founts of knowledge. Among the men afterwards famous who studied at Cordova were the scholarly monk Gerbert, destined to sit on the Chair of Peter as Sylvester II (999-1003), the Jewish rabbis Moses and Maimonides, and the famous Spanish-Arabian commentator on Aristotle, Averroes.


So it's easy to see why a group of Muslims creating a community center in the heart of a majority Christian country in a city known for its large Jewish population might name it "The Cordoba House" They're not, as Gingrich hopes we would believe, discreetly laughing at us because "Cordoba" is some double-secret Islamist code for "conquest"; rather, they're hoping to associate themselves with a particular time in medieval history when the largest library in Western Europe was to be found in Cordoba, a city in which scholars of all three major Abrahamic religions were free to study side-by-side.

Shame on the fear-mongers.

Learning a bit more about Cordoba and it's relevance, makes me want to support their endeavor. It's a worthwhile endeavor, far more so than the fear, hate, intolerance that seems to be coming out in some of the opposition.
__________________

DISCLAIMER: Extreme amounts of sarcasm can possibly result in inflammatory situations. Not responsible for keyboard violence, spittle on the monitor, irrational responses mistaken for momentary brilliance, one-sided rages against hypocrisy or individual members or unintended consequences such as poor personal hygiene and bad spelling. Please fasten your seatbelts and put your trays in an upright position.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Coyote For This Useful Post:
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-13-2010, 10:38 PM
Revere's Avatar
Any Label You Want!
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: www.usdebateboard.com
Posts: 1,414
Thanks: 8
Thanked 303 Times in 219 Posts
Default Re: "Cordova" The ground zero "victory" mosque: historical perspective

It's a mosque. Use the word. When you dance around it, it's obvious you do it for a reason.
__________________
US Debate Board
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2010, 10:25 AM
Coyote's Avatar
Vole deMorte (the snack)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 14,402
Thanks: 11,519
Thanked 8,224 Times in 5,270 Posts
Default Re: "Cordova" The ground zero "victory" mosque: historical perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revere View Post
It's a mosque. Use the word. When you dance around it, it's obvious you do it for a reason.
It's not a mosque - I use the word by which it is called. Is a Christian community center a Church?

No.

They call it a community center.
__________________

DISCLAIMER: Extreme amounts of sarcasm can possibly result in inflammatory situations. Not responsible for keyboard violence, spittle on the monitor, irrational responses mistaken for momentary brilliance, one-sided rages against hypocrisy or individual members or unintended consequences such as poor personal hygiene and bad spelling. Please fasten your seatbelts and put your trays in an upright position.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Coyote For This Useful Post:
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2010, 01:26 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,659
Thanks: 2,655
Thanked 1,322 Times in 895 Posts
Default Re: "Cordova" The ground zero "victory" mosque: historical perspective

It's a "rabat".


Islam center's eerie echo of ancient terror

Posted: 5:34 AM, September 10, 2010
Amir Taheri

Should there be a mosque near Ground Zero? In fact, what is pro posed is not a mosque -- nor even an "Islamic cultural center."

In Islam, every structure linked to the faith and its rituals has a precise function and character. A mosque is a one-story gallery built around an atrium with a mihrab (a niche pointing to Mecca) and one, or in the case of Shiites two, minarets.

Other Islamic structures, such as harams, zawiyyahs, husseinyiahs and takiyahs, also obey strict architectural rules. Yet the building used for spreading the faith is known as Dar al-Tabligh, or House of Proselytizing.

The Ground Zero project doesn't fit the traditional minaret.

This 13-story multifunctional structure couldn't be any of the above.
The groups fighting for the project know this; this is why they sometimes call it an Islamic cultural center. But there is no such thing as an Islamic culture.

Islam is a religion, not a culture. Each of the 57 Muslim-majority nations has its own distinct culture -- and the Bengali culture has little in common with the Nigerian. Then, too, most of those countries have their own cultural offices in the US, especially in New York.

Islam is an ingredient in dozens of cultures, not a culture on its own.
In theory, at least, the culture of American Muslims should be American. Of course, this being America, each ethnic community has its distinct cultural memories -- the Iranians in Los Angeles are different from the Arabs in Dearborn.

In fact, the proposed structure is known in Islamic history as a rabat -- literally a connector.

The first rabat appeared at the time of the Prophet.

The Prophet imposed his rule on parts of Arabia through a series of ghazvas, or razzias (the origin of the English word "raid"). The ghazva was designed to terrorize the infidels, convince them that their civilization was doomed and force them to submit to Islamic rule. Those who participated in the ghazva were known as the ghazis, or raiders.

After each ghazva, the Prophet ordered the creation of a rabat -- or a point of contact at the heart of the infidel territory raided. The rabat consisted of an area for prayer, a section for the raiders to eat and rest and facilities to train and prepare for future razzias. Later Muslim rulers used the tactic of ghazva to conquer territory in the Persian and Byzantine empires. After each raid, they built a rabat to prepare for the next razzia.

It is no coincidence that Islamists routinely use the term ghazva to describe the 9/11 attacks against New York and Washington. The terrorists who carried out the attack are referred to as ghazis or shahids (martyrs).

Thus, building a rabat close to Ground Zero would be in accordance with a tradition started by the Prophet. To all those who believe and hope that the 9/11 ghazva would lead to the destruction of the American "Great Satan," this would be of great symbolic value.

Faced with the anger of New Yorkers, the promoters of the project have started calling it the Cordoba House, echoing President Obama's assertion that it would be used to propagate "moderate" Islam.


The argument is that Cordoba, in southern Spain, was a city where followers of Islam, Christianity and Judaism lived together in peace and produced literature and philosophy.

In fact, Cordoba's history is full of stories of oppression and massacre, prompted by religious fanaticism. It is true that the Muslim rulers of Cordoba didn't force their Christian and Jewish subjects to accept Islam. However, non-Muslims could keep their faith and enjoy state protection only as dhimmis (bonded ones) by paying a poll tax in a system of religious apartheid.

If whatever peace and harmony that is supposed to have existed in Cordoba were the fruit of "Muslim rule," the subtext is that the United States would enjoy similar peace and harmony under Islamic rule.

A rabat in the heart of Manhattan would be of great symbolic value to those who want a high-profile, "in your face" projection of Islam in the infidel West.

This thirst for visibility is translated into increasingly provocative forms of hijab, notably the niqab (mask) and the burqa. The same quest mobilized hundreds of Muslims in Paris the other day to close a whole street so that they could have a Ramadan prayer in the middle of the rush hour.

One of those taking part in the demonstration told French radio that the aim was to "show we are here." "You used to be in our capitals for centuries," he said. "Now, it is our turn to be in the heart of your cities."

Before deciding whether to support or oppose the "Cordoba" project, New Yorkers should consider what it is that they would be buying.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/i...RTMW6TprkULnaA 1Nqi9xM#ixzz0zP5zZfuX
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2010, 05:02 PM
mlurp's Avatar
INDEPENDENT
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Some Place
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,003
Thanks: 15,124
Thanked 8,313 Times in 6,510 Posts
Default Re: "Cordova" The ground zero "victory" mosque: historical perspective

Not another thread on this and why in this topic area? Why can't you all just use one of the plenty already started threads..

Next one will be in the "Say Hi to the Forum" topic I bet.
__________________
"There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation... One is by sword... The other is by debt."

John Adams 1826



Life is to valuable to waste so moral up and live life right.

Cause with Jesus, you can live on after the Judgement.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2010, 05:05 PM
cnredd's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Gender: Male
Posts: 45,614
Thanks: 1,364
Thanked 24,273 Times in 14,937 Posts
Default Re: "Cordova" The ground zero "victory" mosque: historical perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlurp View Post
Not another thread on this and why in this topic area? Why can't you all just use one of the plenty already started threads..

Next one will be in the "Say Hi to the Forum" topic I bet.
I'll create a new member named "GroundZeroMosque" and introduce myself just to piss you off...

__________________
"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2010, 05:19 PM
mlurp's Avatar
INDEPENDENT
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Some Place
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,003
Thanks: 15,124
Thanked 8,313 Times in 6,510 Posts
Default Re: "Cordova" The ground zero "victory" mosque: historical perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
I'll create a new member named "GroundZeroMosque" and introduce myself just to piss you off...

I'm not pissed off. But it is getting out of hand, you Spencer, and how many others started threads on this...

How many? 8, 10.. So do what you like, piss on your own leg for all I care. , ..
__________________
"There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation... One is by sword... The other is by debt."

John Adams 1826



Life is to valuable to waste so moral up and live life right.

Cause with Jesus, you can live on after the Judgement.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cordova, ground, historical, mosque, perspective, the, victory, zero

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump

LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/history-geography-military/15164-cordova-ground-zero-victory-mosque-historical-perspective.html
Posted By For Type Date
Untitled document This thread Refback 01-04-2011 12:35 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0