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Old 07-28-2020, 05:30 AM
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Default You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now
People are power scrubbing their way to a false sense of security.
the Atlantic

In May, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention updated its guidelines to clarify that while COVID-19 spreads easily among speakers and sneezers in close encounters, touching a surface “isn’t thought to be the main way the virus spreads.” Other scientists have reached a more forceful conclusion. “Surface transmission of COVID-19 is not justified at all by the science,” Emanuel Goldman, a microbiology professor at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School, told me. He also emphasized the primacy of airborne person-to-person transmission....

...Surface transmission—from touching doorknobs, mail, food-delivery packages, and subways poles—seems quite rare. (Quite rare isn’t the same as impossible: The scientists I spoke with constantly repeated the phrase “people should still wash their hands.”) The difference may be a simple matter of time. In the hours that can elapse between, say, Person 1 coughing on her hand and using it to push open a door and Person 2 touching the same door and rubbing his eye, the virus particles from the initial cough may have sufficiently deteriorated.

The fact that surface areas—or “fomites,” in medical jargon—are less likely to convey the virus might seem counterintuitive to people who have internalized certain notions of grimy germs, or who read many news articles in March about the danger of COVID-19-contaminated food. Backing up those scary stories were several U.S. studies that found that COVID-19 particles could survive on surfaces for many hours and even days.

But in a July article in the medical journal The Lancet, Goldman excoriated those conclusions. All those studies that made COVID-19 seem likely to live for days on metal and paper bags were based on unrealistically strong concentrations of the virus. As he explained to me, as many as 100 people would need to sneeze on the same area of a table to mimic some of their experimental conditions. The studies “stacked the deck to get a result that bears no resemblance to the real world," Goldman said....
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Old 07-28-2020, 06:38 AM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

Was cleaning the mail a thing? I know my neighbor was going out to the package box (we live out in the country) in full regalia (mask, goggles and gloves) and brought an extra plastic bag to pick up her package, back in May.

She's eased up a little, we exchange produce and eggs at a post between our properties, but she is still declining a face to face (with distancing) so we have long winded text messages weekly, lol.
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Old 07-28-2020, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Was cleaning the mail a thing? I know my neighbor was going out to the package box (we live out in the country) in full regalia (mask, goggles and gloves) and brought an extra plastic bag to pick up her package, back in May.

She's eased up a little, we exchange produce and eggs at a post between our properties, but she is still declining a face to face (with distancing) so we have long winded text messages weekly, lol.
Your neighbor is a perfect example of the fear instilled by, over zealous reporting of the danger and repeated demands by gubmit officials to Shelter in place and wear a dayum mask or you will die.

We didn't fear
H1N1
SARS
Bird flu
Swine flu
Ebola.

But Covid-19 proves the media and the Gubmit can make cowards of most all of us.

If you are a sensible law and order patriot, with a mind of your own, you must be either a racist or a health danger to your neighbors. You are, therefore, the enemy.
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:11 AM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Your neighbor is a perfect example of the fear instilled by, over zealous reporting of the danger and repeated demands by gubmit officials to Shelter in place and wear a dayum mask or you will die.

We didn't fear
H1N1
SARS
Bird flu
Swine flu
Ebola.

But Covid-19 proves the media and the Gubmit can make cowards of most all of us.

If you are a sensible law and order patriot, with a mind of your own, you must be either a racist or a health danger to your neighbors. You are, therefore, the enemy.
when they were new and still mysterious we did fear them yes. ebola was contained in an area pretty quickly and guidelines were followed.
the 1918 flu was an h1n1 variety and it was scary for us. it's just we haven't had a brand new virus we still are finding out about plus there is really no coherent unified message coming from our leaders. the scientists are pushed toward the back so we each must determine on our own what is best. that's ok if you are deciding where to send your kids to school or where to go to work, but in an emergency situation it's best to have unity from authorities as well as direction.
side note: I was talking w a doctor the other day and he agreed with me in that I don't think this is going away any time soon.
the best thing the govt can do is not refurbish the pentagon and projects like that that can wait, but just issue stipends for every family because right now there are I think I read 40 million mortgages that are going to be foreclosed on. even if there is another moratorium those people are going to have to catch up that rent or mortgage and at some point that is going to be impossible.
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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when they were new and still mysterious we did fear them yes. ebola was contained in an area pretty quickly and guidelines were followed.
the 1918 flu was an h1n1 variety and it was scary for us. it's just we haven't had a brand new virus we still are finding out about plus there is really no coherent unified message coming from our leaders. the scientists are pushed toward the back so we each must determine on our own what is best. that's ok if you are deciding where to send your kids to school or where to go to work, but in an emergency situation it's best to have unity from authorities as well as direction.
side note: I was talking w a doctor the other day and he agreed with me in that I don't think this is going away any time soon.
the best thing the govt can do is not refurbish the pentagon and projects like that that can wait, but just issue stipends for every family because right now there are I think I read 40 million mortgages that are going to be foreclosed on. even if there is another moratorium those people are going to have to catch up that rent or mortgage and at some point that is going to be impossible.
So those who were receiving that extra $600 a week, or more, per person on unemployment ($2,400 a month) were doing exactly what with that money? If their mortgage or rent exceeded that, they had issues long before COVID-19 made life a problem.

My sympathy reaches only so far. At some point, people need to take some responsibility for their situation. According to some, that makes me racist. I won't take that label, because I don't care what color someone is.
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Old 07-29-2020, 11:13 AM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
So those who were receiving that extra $600 a week, or more, per person on unemployment ($2,400 a month) were doing exactly what with that money? If their mortgage or rent exceeded that, they had issues long before COVID-19 made life a problem.

My sympathy reaches only so far. At some point, people need to take some responsibility for their situation. According to some, that makes me racist. I won't take that label, because I don't care what color someone is.
I sort of get where you're coming from but
When someone looses there job
...because of BS lockdowns
and can't find another because many things are slowed or stopped in certain biz sectors
..because of lockdowns.
the schools and daycares are closed or turned into prison like conditions so some people have little access to childcare.
...because of lockdowns.
What kind of responsibility do you want some people to take... exactly?

Assuming your mortagae/rent was never higher than your income. But you were living paycheck to paycheck.

What would you suggest they do?
What would you do?
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Old 07-29-2020, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Was cleaning the mail a thing? I know my neighbor was going out to the package box (we live out in the country) in full regalia (mask, goggles and gloves) and brought an extra plastic bag to pick up her package, back in May.

She's eased up a little, we exchange produce and eggs at a post between our properties, but she is still declining a face to face (with distancing) so we have long winded text messages weekly, lol.
I hope you are reporting that bartering of goods to the IRS and paying your taxes on it or I might have to report you.
<sarcasm>

I didn't know cleaning mail was a thing either.
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Old 07-29-2020, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
So those who were receiving that extra $600 a week, or more, per person on unemployment ($2,400 a month) were doing exactly what with that money? If their mortgage or rent exceeded that, they had issues long before COVID-19 made life a problem.

My sympathy reaches only so far. At some point, people need to take some responsibility for their situation. According to some, that makes me racist. I won't take that label, because I don't care what color someone is.
I heard an interesting comment about that extra $600/week from a politician. She said, "The GOP want to reduce that $600 down to $200 is taking $400 per week away from families." What? That kind of statement just blows my mind. It's not 'taking' anything away from anybody, it's simply 'giving' them less. Many people (not me) were actually getting more in unemployment than they were earning before losing their job.

Full disclosure for everybody on this board, I am currently unemployed. My employer was forced to shut down about 98% of its income stream by government business closures. As states re-open the company is also re-opening but it's too late for the 15% of us at corporate headquarters that had our jobs eliminated.
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
I sort of get where you're coming from but
When someone looses there job
...because of BS lockdowns
and can't find another because many things are slowed or stopped in certain biz sectors
..because of lockdowns.
the schools and daycares are closed or turned into prison like conditions so some people have little access to childcare.
...because of lockdowns.
What kind of responsibility do you want some people to take... exactly?

Assuming your mortagae/rent was never higher than your income. But you were living paycheck to paycheck.

What would you suggest they do?
What would you do?
I get your point.
I think the responsibility was supposed to occur before people lost their jobs.
Like not living paycheck to paycheck.
Like living below your means.
Like saving money for an emergency. 3-6 months living expenses is recommended.
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Old 07-29-2020, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat View Post
I get your point.
I think the responsibility was supposed to occur before people lost their jobs.
Like not living paycheck to paycheck.
Like living below your means.
Like saving money for an emergency. 3-6 months living expenses is recommended.
That's all great but , I have to ask have you guys ever really had bad financial stuff happen to you or family members.

By way of personal example.
I'd worked the same job with good pay for over a decade. And i got laid off 7 years ago. I had 6 months of savings. A month later my wife lost her good job.
We got unemployment but shortly after took jobs with FAR lower pay simply because neither of us were able to get (still haven't) jobs comparable to our previous positions. The 6 months savings went into mortgage home repairs and car repairs. no extra to build reserves. in fact we owe family and friends money. By the grace of God we've manage to keep our home. (getting a smaller home would cost us about the same or more and in a worse area. Renting the same.)

By the grace of God my current Job was considered "essential". if i had been force to leave with no pay or unemployment based on my salary we'd be in danger of losing the home.
our mortgage company only "offered" to DELAY payments. that is 'you don't have to pay this month or the next 3 months but on the four month we want ALL the back payments due at once'. We respectfully declined their offer.

I can understand how people with young kids to care for or medical bills or other major financial hits could slip under the bus during this time.

Exactly how it should be addressed is another question but letting a large group of people fall through the cracks to a lower place wear it's MUCH harder to rise from doesn't make sense. It's not just about compassion it's about having a community that's stable and successful as well. everyone is better off.
People should be "responsible" but when their house has burnt down it doesn't help to say well you should have had a fire extinguishers And my compassion goes only so far.
Americans used pride themselves on their compassion, helping their neighbors out during hard times.

there's a real place for "responsibility" but i'm not sure why folks would assume to worse of those that have lost jobs or businesses during this 4+ months of virus/gov't forced crash.
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Last edited by mr wonder; 07-29-2020 at 03:45 PM..
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