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Health, Wellness, Sex and Body Discuss You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by mr wonder That's all great but , I have to ask have you guys ever really had ...

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Old 07-29-2020, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
That's all great but , I have to ask have you guys ever really had bad financial stuff happen to you or family members.

By way of personal example.
I'd worked the same job with good pay for over a decade. And i got laid off 7 years ago. I had 6 months of savings. A month later my wife lost her good job.
We got unemployment but shortly after took jobs with FAR lower pay simply because neither of us were able to get (still haven't) jobs comparable to our previous positions. The 6 months savings went into mortgage home repairs and car repairs. no extra to build reserves. in fact we owe family and friends money. By the grace of God we've manage to keep our home. (getting a smaller home would cost us about the same or more and in a worse area. Renting the same.)

By the grace of God my current Job was considered "essential". if i had been force to leave with no pay or unemployment based on my salary we'd be in danger of losing the home.
our mortgage company only "offered" to DELAY payments. that is 'you don't have to pay this month or the next 3 months but on the four month we want ALL the back payments due at once'. We respectfully declined their offer.

I can understand how people with young kids to care for or medical bills or other major financial hits could slip under the bus during this time.

Exactly how it should be addressed is another question but letting a large group of people fall through the cracks to a lower place wear it's MUCH harder to rise from doesn't make sense. It's not just about compassion it's about having a community that's stable and successful as well. everyone is better off.
People should be "responsible" but when their house has burnt down it doesn't help to say well you should have had a fire extinguishers And my compassion goes only so far.
Americans used pride themselves on their compassion, helping their neighbors out during hard times.

there's a real place for "responsibility" but i'm not sure why folks would assume to worse of those that have lost jobs or businesses during this 4+ months of virus/gov't forced crash.
No, when somebodies house burns down you say, I hope you have decent insurance.

Other than that, I understand your points. But, it does sound like you and your wife managed to take take responsibility and figure out how to make things work. I don't know that it's people thinking the worse of those that lost jobs but more like thinking, "Hey mr wonder managed to figure out how to get along, why can't others figure it out?"

As for a solution for people that can't manage (for whatever reason), I don't think the government can carry those people indefinitely.
I'm guessing you saw my other post in this thread where I admitted that I am currently unemployed due to the covid/government shutdowns. I don't expect the government to supply me with livable income forever, even though it is was government forced shutdown of my employer that brought about my job loss.

Americans are still being compassionate. Food banks are still giving out food provided by other Americans. Homeless shelters are still providing shelter and clothing provided by other Americans.
In the quoted post, you said "by the grace of god" twice. Did your church assist you during your trying times? If so, that was compassion from Americans.

In today's environment I don't know what the solution is. I tend to think that government is not the solution.
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Old 07-29-2020, 07:23 PM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
So those who were receiving that extra $600 a week, or more, per person on unemployment ($2,400 a month) were doing exactly what with that money? If their mortgage or rent exceeded that, they had issues long before COVID-19 made life a problem.

My sympathy reaches only so far. At some point, people need to take some responsibility for their situation. According to some, that makes me racist. I won't take that label, because I don't care what color someone is.
I'm sure they used it to catch up from the crappy economy that has only been good for wall street. People draw unemployment based on previous income. and it's not 100% what you were making.
We pay taxes so rich corporate executives can buy another yacht, so politicians can make government deals to still suck income after they're out of office. And for thousands of nonsensical bull sh*t reasons.
I'm not proposing $600 dollars above unemployment, more like $2000 a month per family. It's not a matter of pity, it's a matter of the economy of real people who struggle every day to create a miracle and exhausted fall to bed without even time to hug their kids. That is not the exception, but sadly the rule for young families BEFORE covid-19 came into their lives.
we're facing 40 million home repos, homelessness of families like we've never seen and haven't been even during the G Depression. cause homes costs are artificially inflated and have been for quite some time. decades not years. wages have not been allowed to naturally rise but have been tamped down. etc but you don't understand, so...whatevs, man.
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Old 07-29-2020, 09:03 PM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by Bat View Post
No, when somebodies house burns down you say, I hope you have decent insurance.

Other than that, I understand your points. But, it does sound like you and your wife managed to take take responsibility and figure out how to make things work. I don't know that it's people thinking the worse of those that lost jobs but more like thinking, "Hey mr wonder managed to figure out how to get along, why can't others figure it out?"

As for a solution for people that can't manage (for whatever reason), I don't think the government can carry those people indefinitely.
I'm guessing you saw my other post in this thread where I admitted that I am currently unemployed due to the covid/government shutdowns. I don't expect the government to supply me with livable income forever, even though it is was government forced shutdown of my employer that brought about my job loss.

Americans are still being compassionate. Food banks are still giving out food provided by other Americans. Homeless shelters are still providing shelter and clothing provided by other Americans.
In the quoted post, you said "by the grace of god" twice. Did your church assist you during your trying times? If so, that was compassion from Americans.

In today's environment I don't know what the solution is. I tend to think that government is not the solution.
We agree on some not so much on others.
But hey that's life. I hope you're work situation comes around.

As far as others doing what we and my wife did.
You know that every family is different I know people with handicapped children and the daycares have been either closed or limited. They could not do what we did.

And who said anything about Indefinite gov't help?
but look the shutdown has been for 4 months, thousands of small businesses are gone, million out of work. Seems to me the gov't can pitch in for a year to try get people and small biz back up and running.
After a hurricane and tornadoes and floods we try and help rebuild.
IMO all hands on deck, private, religious and gov't. Especially when the gov't CAUSED the problem with the quarantine/lockdown of healthy people.
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
I sort of get where you're coming from but
When someone looses there job
...because of BS lockdowns
and can't find another because many things are slowed or stopped in certain biz sectors
..because of lockdowns.
the schools and daycares are closed or turned into prison like conditions so some people have little access to childcare.
...because of lockdowns.
What kind of responsibility do you want some people to take... exactly?

Assuming your mortagae/rent was never higher than your income. But you were living paycheck to paycheck.

What would you suggest they do?
What would you do?
The first question, as stated in my post, was what did they do with the extra unemployment they were receiving? Assuming both adults worked (most do) that means they were getting a minimum of $4800 per month.

Did they spend it on their mortgage/rent, utilities, groceries and food? Or did they spend it on other things to keep themselves entertained during the 'lockdown'?

I was considered 'essential' so my butt was in work 6 days a week to make sure the front line workers got paid. No one was paying my bills, my mortgage, and I STILL didn't spend my income on non-essential things, because even with verbal promises, feces happens.

I know what living paycheck to paycheck is, and I know what losing ground financially is. I know the feeling starting with desperation, then depression, then resignation that everything you've worked for is circling the bowl. You've hit bottom.

What you do during and after that, says a great deal about the person you are.
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:24 AM
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I hope you are reporting that bartering of goods to the IRS and paying your taxes on it or I might have to report you.
<sarcasm>

I didn't know cleaning mail was a thing either.
Gifts between friends.
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
I'm sure they used it to catch up from the crappy economy that has only been good for wall street. People draw unemployment based on previous income. and it's not 100% what you were making.
We pay taxes so rich corporate executives can buy another yacht, so politicians can make government deals to still suck income after they're out of office. And for thousands of nonsensical bull sh*t reasons.
I'm not proposing $600 dollars above unemployment, more like $2000 a month per family. It's not a matter of pity, it's a matter of the economy of real people who struggle every day to create a miracle and exhausted fall to bed without even time to hug their kids. That is not the exception, but sadly the rule for young families BEFORE covid-19 came into their lives.
we're facing 40 million home repos, homelessness of families like we've never seen and haven't been even during the G Depression. cause homes costs are artificially inflated and have been for quite some time. decades not years. wages have not been allowed to naturally rise but have been tamped down. etc but you don't understand, so...whatevs, man.
When you pay into the tax pool as I and others do, and then get certain groups of people attempting to insult and demonize you on a daily basis, then demand that you turn over what you have worked and paid for, to those who have not worked and paid for it, get back to me.
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Old 07-30-2020, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
I sort of get where you're coming from but
When someone looses there job
...because of BS lockdowns
and can't find another because many things are slowed or stopped in certain biz sectors
..because of lockdowns.
the schools and daycares are closed or turned into prison like conditions so some people have little access to childcare.
...because of lockdowns.
What kind of responsibility do you want some people to take... exactly?

Assuming your mortagae/rent was never higher than your income. But you were living paycheck to paycheck.

What would you suggest they do?
What would you do?
Compassion is plentiful, when you know that a person has done all they can with what they have, and still cannot reach the necessity line. You help them along the way, while they continue to do their best. And help does not always equate to money. Compassion withers when you extend your hand, and someone spits in it.

When people who have lost their jobs due to COVID-19, and most banks/mortgage companies offered delay or extension on mortgages (they don't want all those houses, believe me) and car loans, utilities not charging late fees and if people took those offers, then what were they spending that money on?

Everyone has a different set of issues to go with their life. Apparently for most people, spending other people's money is the cure all.
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Old 07-30-2020, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
We agree on some not so much on others.
But hey that's life. I hope you're work situation comes around.
Thanks, I'm sure it will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
As far as others doing what we and my wife did.
You know that every family is different I know people with handicapped children and the daycares have been either closed or limited. They could not do what we did.
Yes, every situation is different. The problem is that government solutions tend to be a 'one size fits all'. Hence, the additional $600/month federal benefit gave some people more money than they earned before getting fired and some getting less as unemployment usually does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
And who said anything about Indefinite gov't help?
but look the shutdown has been for 4 months, thousands of small businesses are gone, million out of work. Seems to me the gov't can pitch in for a year to try get people and small biz back up and running.
After a hurricane and tornadoes and floods we try and help rebuild.
IMO all hands on deck, private, religious and gov't. Especially when the gov't CAUSED the problem with the quarantine/lockdown of healthy people.
Okay, you didn't advocate for indefinite gov't solution. It does have to end at some point though, and that was what I meant.
I'm actually not fond of the federal gov't stepping in to give tax money for tragedies. Here is a good essay that expresses my opinion on that position. https://fee.org/media/14953/notyourstogive.pdf Also, I'd like to point out that the federal government didn't shut down anything in the private sector, state and local governments did.
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Old 07-30-2020, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
When you pay into the tax pool as I and others do, and then get certain groups of people attempting to insult and demonize you on a daily basis, then demand that you turn over what you have worked and paid for, to those who have not worked and paid for it, get back to me.
again you allege that you and your political affiliates are the only people in this country who pay taxes.
yes, Virginia, people in need pay taxes too. an inadequate job in terms of income is still a job and taxes are still removed from the pay check.
the heaviest taxed areas are mostly liberal and they pay into a system that supports need based programs. most people receiving benefits at present live in red states.
so who is supporting who here?
The only difference in you and a leftie paying into these programs is they see it as benefiting the economy and country as a whole.
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Old 07-31-2020, 07:34 AM
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Default Re: You Can Stop Cleaning Your Mail Now

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
again you allege that you and your political affiliates are the only people in this country who pay taxes.
yes, Virginia, people in need pay taxes too. an inadequate job in terms of income is still a job and taxes are still removed from the pay check.
the heaviest taxed areas are mostly liberal and they pay into a system that supports need based programs. most people receiving benefits at present live in red states.
so who is supporting who here?
The only difference in you and a leftie paying into these programs is they see it as benefiting the economy and country as a whole.
Excuse me, exactly where di I say 'me and my political affiliates?'

You are a prize package. Perhaps I need to provide you with a primer regarding taxes, Earned Income Credits, assistance programs, and to top it off, a program that has been floating around that actually equalizes what you receive from things like Social Security to what you have paid in?

The heaviest taxed areas ARE LOCAL TAXES, which pay for infrastructure and education. The percentage of income that applies to federal programs IS THE EXACT SAME NATION WIDE.

OY VEY!!!!
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